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Thread: Bushmaster C15 5.56/.22 combo

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gungho View Post
    Thank you.

    I actually did a Google search and the links I chose took me to this site and a Prepper site.

    I'm terribly sorry if I'm pissing anyone off; I'm trying to get the info on my own, I'm just not having any luck finding info directly related to the problems with this specific firearm.

    As I said though, IF I decide to go with the BM it will cost $1,035. That is my price range and I like the dual capability and that's why I 'was' leaning toward it. Now, not only am I rethinking purchasing the BM but I'm flustered about WHICH manufacturer to go with.
    I want/need and AR......I really don't need a .22, I've got two already, I just like the versatility......knowing that if the SHTF I don't have to carry an entirely different rifle for hunting small game.
    Given your price range, I'd get the Colt and wait a little bit to buy a CMMG .22lr conversion. If you really feel like you need the .22lr capability now, go with a S&W M&P15 and get the conversion.

    There's a little cash benefit in getting a lower tier AR, and given the correct choice and careful inspection & maintenance, it's a viable route to go for a low volume shooter. If you're not going to classes quarterly, training weekly to monthly and shooting competitions, you can make one work just fine.

    Still, there's a lot to be said for peace of mind. Buying a Colt, BCM, Daniel Defense, etc. is paying a little more for a significantly better quality rifle. What price should that peace of mind cost?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by skijunkie55 View Post
    https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7376

    have fun reading.

    Just a side note - If you're going to be offended by the opinions expressed here concerning said product, then this place isn't for you.
    I HAVE read the above thread....
    I HAVE read the "Bushmaster" Stickys......
    And what that amounts to is a bunch of crap that has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the model I am 'thinking' about buying......
    And NO ONE seems to want to ANSWER my original question, they only want to bash me for NOT reading something that I didn't know existed in the first place.......
    And since "The Chart" has been removed and replaced with a bunch of gobbledy gook, that makes absolutely no sense when it comes to answering my question, it's crap and should be removed altogether and never referenced again. I just wasted half an hour reading useless information!
    And the "Sticky" that is supposed to show pics of AR's doesn't even bother to name the rifles shown........Semper Phi

    This IS why I asked the question I did to begin with. I didn't ask for opinions about Bushmaster in general; if you just don't like BM that's fine but I don't care. I asked for SPECIFIC opinions about the Bushmaster C15 Combo only. Is there a problem with it? Does anyone have one that has an educated opinion? If BM isn't a good brand what would be?

    I see that the Colt seems to be a popular brand and I will check into those.

    Thank you for your responses. I'm still not OFFENDED, I'm pissed because people on these damn forums are only on here so they can behave like they are holier than thou......If you can't answer my question then bugger off! You have NO idea what I have read on this forum and what I haven't......AND if those stickys or searchs didn't answer my question I guess that's why I asked the question and started this thread.


    This was the most helpful and least judgmental response I received to my question:

    TehLlama

    The stickies are the top list of permanently attached threads at the top of each forum.

    If in doubt on an abbreviation, the search bar is your friend - just search that abbreviation, and somewhere on the first page it'll probably be spelled out. If not, google that plus AR and it will likely come up.

    If you want to look at multi-use setups, the CMMG Drop-in kit, which works OK for what it is, still puts you within $100 of starting off with a Colt 6920 and the convo kit, which is an infinitely better rifle than the BM C-15 anything. I'd still say make the .22lr trainer a dedicated rifle, let that setup absorb all the accessories you no longer want on a primary rifle, and work from there. Looking at how much they want for that C-15 combo kit makes me cringe - you can start off with an excellent rifle (the 6920) and buy a .22 kit, instead of having two configurations of a rifle that is frankly worse made than a lot of airsoft hardware I own.

    The reason there's concern on new people being upset, is the majority of low information AR buyers come here, get offended or assume that this site exists to make people who buy cheap hardware feel bad, and then seek advice elsewhere where the subject matter expert (SME) to clueless idiot ratio is closer to zero. Just some context on what you'll read from the stickies - the same way a four-door sedan sold for under $8000 new is intuitively not good at its job, most rifles under $900 are going to be utter crap - in the firearms industry companies get away with it because most rifles live in a safe and aren't fired, thus you get lots of errornet information that 'my rifle is perfectly reliable', which is worth as much as a car review where they've driven it around a wal-mart parking lot in first gear.

  3. #23
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    Assuming you're going to read the sticky posts so you can understand why Bushmaster is considered "hobby grade" at best, here's a quick list of manufacturers that produce quality rifles that will meet your needs:

    Colt - Considered by most to be the "Gold Standard" by which all other AR-15 rifles are measured.

    Other top-quality manufacturers, in no particular order:

    Bravo Company USA

    Daniel Defense

    Noveske

    Any of the above make rifles that you can trust your life to, and if properly maintained, will last longer than you will.

    Now, to find out why, you need to do some reading.

    EDIT: And, nothing personal, but getting "pissed" and copping an attitude will not carry you very far here. People are genuinely trying to help you.
    Last edited by CrazyFingers; 08-07-13 at 16:03.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyFingers View Post
    Assuming you're going to read the sticky posts so you can understand why Bushmaster is considered "hobby grade" at best, here's a quick list of manufacturers that produce quality rifles that will meet your needs:

    Colt - Considered by most to be the "Gold Standard" by which all other AR-15 rifles are measured.

    Other top-quality manufacturers, in no particular order:

    Bravo Company USA

    Daniel Defense

    Noveske

    Any of the above make rifles that you can trust your life to, and if properly maintained, will last longer than you will.

    Now, to find out why, you need to do some reading.

    EDIT: And, nothing personal, but getting "pissed" and copping an attitude will not carry you very far here. People are genuinely trying to help you.
    Thank you for your Informative Post. I will be checking into these.

    Copping an attitude isn't my purpose. My purpose is to get all the damn haters to shut up! Like telling me to read, I have read and haven't received ANY answers to my original question, all I see is a bunch of BM haters bashing me for my ignorance and a VERY FEW "genuinely" trying to help. I'm sorry, but I'm not a door mat, and I will not sit silently when someone is being condescending to me on a personal level.
    Last edited by Gungho; 08-07-13 at 16:16.

  5. #25
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    This thread has some info on the Carbon-15, though not absolutely specifc the Carbon-15 w/ 22LR combo:

    https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=128323

  6. #26
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    Re: Bushmaster C15 5.56/.22 combo

    Nothing has gotten personal. You're getting straight spoken opinion and input on Bushmaster as a manufacturer.

    I ran a quick search on the term "carbon 15" and found the thread below. That model is a plastic receiver built AR from a company that most here do not consider to build a solid aluminum receiver rifle.

    https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=128323

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gungho View Post
    I HAVE read the above thread....
    I HAVE read the "Bushmaster" Stickys......
    And what that amounts to is a bunch of crap that has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the model I am 'thinking' about buying......
    And NO ONE seems to want to ANSWER my original question, they only want to bash me for NOT reading something that I didn't know existed in the first place.......
    And since "The Chart" has been removed and replaced with a bunch of gobbledy gook, that makes absolutely no sense when it comes to answering my question, it's crap and should be removed altogether and never referenced again. I just wasted half an hour reading useless information!
    And the "Sticky" that is supposed to show pics of AR's doesn't even bother to name the rifles shown........Semper Phi

    This IS why I asked the question I did to begin with. I didn't ask for opinions about Bushmaster in general; if you just don't like BM that's fine but I don't care. I asked for SPECIFIC opinions about the Bushmaster C15 Combo only. Is there a problem with it? Does anyone have one that has an educated opinion? If BM isn't a good brand what would be?

    I see that the Colt seems to be a popular brand and I will check into those.

    Thank you for your responses. I'm still not OFFENDED, I'm pissed because people on these damn forums are only on here so they can behave like they are holier than thou......If you can't answer my question then bugger off! You have NO idea what I have read on this forum and what I haven't......AND if those stickys or searchs didn't answer my question I guess that's why I asked the question and started this thread.


    This was the most helpful and least judgmental response I received to my question:

    TehLlama

    The stickies are the top list of permanently attached threads at the top of each forum.

    If in doubt on an abbreviation, the search bar is your friend - just search that abbreviation, and somewhere on the first page it'll probably be spelled out. If not, google that plus AR and it will likely come up.

    If you want to look at multi-use setups, the CMMG Drop-in kit, which works OK for what it is, still puts you within $100 of starting off with a Colt 6920 and the convo kit, which is an infinitely better rifle than the BM C-15 anything. I'd still say make the .22lr trainer a dedicated rifle, let that setup absorb all the accessories you no longer want on a primary rifle, and work from there. Looking at how much they want for that C-15 combo kit makes me cringe - you can start off with an excellent rifle (the 6920) and buy a .22 kit, instead of having two configurations of a rifle that is frankly worse made than a lot of airsoft hardware I own.

    The reason there's concern on new people being upset, is the majority of low information AR buyers come here, get offended or assume that this site exists to make people who buy cheap hardware feel bad, and then seek advice elsewhere where the subject matter expert (SME) to clueless idiot ratio is closer to zero. Just some context on what you'll read from the stickies - the same way a four-door sedan sold for under $8000 new is intuitively not good at its job, most rifles under $900 are going to be utter crap - in the firearms industry companies get away with it because most rifles live in a safe and aren't fired, thus you get lots of errornet information that 'my rifle is perfectly reliable', which is worth as much as a car review where they've driven it around a wal-mart parking lot in first gear.
    Some posters on this forum can get a little short at times (myself included). That isn't a good reason to do the same, particularly when you're new here. The specific combo kit you're asking about probably isn't listed here because long ago in a time nearly forgot, the manufacturer in question was written off entirely as not salvageable. When you know what's sub-par with your offerings and refuse to make changes, that's a sign of intent. In this case, the intent to increase profit margins at the cost of making a good product.

    A LOT of manufacturers go through phases where this happens, particularly when new management or ownership shows up to run things. However, some manufacturers cut corners perpetually and this is where we're at on this thread. Now we could go into barrel metallurgy, Carpenter 158 steel HPT/MPI individually tested bolts, barrel twist rates, chrome lining, and on and on, but that's not where you're at yet. Until you do a TON of reading on this site, none of that is going do do anything but confuse you and make you ask even more questions, which have also been asked and answered repeatedly.

    If you REALLY want that BM offering, then go get it and stop worrying about what others think. We hope you'll be satisfied regardless. We're not going to give it a thumbs up though, so you might as well stop beating that dead horse. Ain't...gonna...happen.

    Good luck!

  8. #28
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    I wouldn't call the responses you've received "Bushmaster haters". I think it's more that there are people here with far more experience on the AR-15/M16/M4 platform than even most LEO/.mil will have. These SMEs (Subject Matter Experts, which I am NOT) have posted many times, in many threads, over many years, patiently explaining with very specific examples and stats, what makes a quality rifle, and what makes junk (Bushmaster, DPMS, Del-Ton, Olympic, etc.)
    If you're looking for a quick "should I buy this Bushmaster Carbon 15" answer, then "NO, hell no" is the response you'll get here. To understand the reasons why requires more time and research. I spent several weeks here just reading the sticky posts and searching through regular discussion threads before I really began to understand what makes a good rifle good, and what makes a bad rifle bad. It also depends on how you're going to use the rifle. You mentioned hunting and self-defense as your primary purpose. When you state that you're going to trust your life to a rifle, you are saying that you have extremely high quality requirements. That is why you get the short list of ~4 manufacturers with a proven track record in that area.
    Now, if you'd said something like "I want to spend too much money on an AR-15 that doesn't come close to meeting the government Technical Data Package, and I'm only going to shoot paper targets and dirt clods", then the Bushmaster Carbon 15 would be right up at the top of the list.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by glocktogo View Post
    Some posters on this forum can get a little short at times (myself included). That isn't a good reason to do the same, particularly when you're new here. The specific combo kit you're asking about probably isn't listed here because long ago in a time nearly forgot, the manufacturer in question was written off entirely as not salvageable. When you know what's sub-par with your offerings and refuse to make changes, that's a sign of intent. In this case, the intent to increase profit margins at the cost of making a good product.

    A LOT of manufacturers go through phases where this happens, particularly when new management or ownership shows up to run things. However, some manufacturers cut corners perpetually and this is where we're at on this thread. Now we could go into barrel metallurgy, Carpenter 158 steel HPT/MPI individually tested bolts, barrel twist rates, chrome lining, and on and on, but that's not where you're at yet. Until you do a TON of reading on this site, none of that is going do do anything but confuse you and make you ask even more questions, which have also been asked and answered repeatedly.

    If you REALLY want that BM offering, then go get it and stop worrying about what others think. We hope you'll be satisfied regardless. We're not going to give it a thumbs up though, so you might as well stop beating that dead horse. Ain't...gonna...happen.

    Good luck!
    Thank you!

    If some would just give me an answer about the flaws in the BM, besides the lower receiver, I could have avoided all this frustration. Is the problem with the lower receiver that it's breaking from the stress of firing the weapon or because it was dropped? Specifics, that's what I was after.

  10. #30
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    never mind


    good luck in your search
    Last edited by Hmac; 08-07-13 at 16:46.

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