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you could get a complete psa carbine and a s&w 15/22 for not a lot more than that combo, like around $300 more if you shop right. this is not a top quality 5.56 ar but its leagues ahead of any bushmaster in my opinion. for around $500 more you could get a colt 6920 and the 15/22 and either way have two dedicated guns that will last your lifetime most likely.
the top rail on the c15 poly upper coming loose/off is enough to tell me they did it wrong. not to mention the upper breaking at barrel threads and lowers snapping receiver extension lugs off. being dropped or not shouldn't matter, unless its from two or more stories high an ar shouldn't break like that. id also be deathly afraid to mortar the thing if a shell got stuck knowing I could very well end up with pieces afterwards.
Last edited by nateebumpo; 08-07-13 at 17:20. Reason: added b/m remarks
The last C-15 I inspected had rifle feed ramps, not improved M4 feed ramps. That causes problems with the nose of the bullet hitting below the feed ramp and digging into the lower part of the upper receiver. Further, the use of their proprietary material (which is not true carbon fiber composite) in the critical area where the barrel receiver extension is torqued onto the upper receiver with the barrel nut with 35-60 pound-feet of torque isn't strong enough to withstand the rigors of routine handling and firing over the expected life of the rifle. The preferred material for this application is forged 7075-T6 aluminum.
The lower receiver is the least stressed part of an AR. However, the critical point is where the receiver extension threads into the lower. Again, the BM carbon isn't as tough. While unlikely to break during firing, if you have to "mortar" the rifle in the field in the event of a stuck case in the chamber (more likely with a BM due to chamber specs and construction), you'd never want to do it with the carbon lower. It's going to break and render the rifle inoperable.
Further, the carbon receiver is going to flex. That's good on a Glock or M&P pistol, but bad on an AR. Why? The precision parts fit required to ensure safety and reliability on critical part interfaces in the AR design. It's not an inexpensive AK design with stamped steel and tons of "tolerance stacking" forgiveness. It's a much more precise and controllable piece of equipment, but only so long as you use quality components that are manufactured within tolerances.
The Holy Grail of AR manufacture is the military spec'd "Technical Data Package". The TDP is followed as much as possible in a civilian legal semi-auto AR by quality companies. Some companies offer advanced parts with more modern features, but only the good ones consider how this might alter the overall function and performance when deviating from the TDP.
Simply pit, BM doesn't do any of this. That they charge nearly as much (in some cases more) than companies that do is a slap in the face. THAT, is why BM gets dumped on. Nothing more, nothing less.
What I found in a few minutes.
failed to feed
The upper ond lower don't fit all that well (matters to some)
Short strokes all the time with ALL ammo
cracks through the rear of the lower near where the buffer tube screws into the lower
live round had managed to jam itself with the rear of the case on top of the bolt up against the gas tube
could shoot about a 12 inch group at 100 yards when wearing a 3-9 Leupold
Carbon 15 doesn't even have a stock barrel nut.
had double-feed after double-feed after stovepipe, after FTF, after light primer strike (pistol version)
Buy what you want. I don't care.
Bill Tidler Jr.
**************
...We have long maintained that the only accessories that a 1911 needs are a trigger you can manage, sights that you can see, and a dehorning job. That still goes.
~Jeff Cooper
[QUOTE=Gungho;1715584 Originally Posted by Gungho
Thank you!
If some would just give me an answer about the flaws in the BM, besides the lower receiver, I could have avoided all this frustration. Is the problem with the lower receiver that it's breaking from the stress of firing the weapon or because it was dropped? Specifics, that's what I was after.]Thank you!
...never mind from here too
Last edited by LostinKY; 08-07-13 at 17:31. Reason: wot
Here is a new Colt LE6920 for $1,099.00.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin...ction&key=6920
Here's a new Colt LE6920 for $995.00.
http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/CO6920.aspx
You compare that math to a Bushmaster, and I'm sure you'll understand why the Colt is the better rifle and better deal.
New Colt LE6920's can be had at my local Wal Mart for $1097.00 plus sales tax.
To those that are saying "Buy what you want I don't care" and "Never mind"; it's not that I'm not listening to you.....it's that you didn't understand or read my original question. I was looking for your opinions and reason's for those opinions.
I never asked anyone to respond to this thread; I didn't put a gun to anyone's head. And if you don't like the question why did you bother to respond in the first place?
If you're not willing to "regurgitate" your vast wealth of knowledge then why bother being on the forum? So you can talk about the weather? Had you spent as much time and energy answering my question as you did criticizing me you would have done a lot less typing. You see..I only wanted to know whether you liked it or not and why, a 'review' if you will. I wasn't expecting the level of hatred toward me personally JUST because I asked a simple question.
To those that saw fit to actually answer my question, Thank You! You have led me to some very interesting sources, that no "I wasn't able to find on my own", they will help to educate me further and THAT I really appreciate!
Some years back I bought a BM, after having owned a Colt carbine back in the mid 80s. I am by no means unhappy with the BM as it has been a good little rifle. I did some upgrades on it, installed a decent trigger, and put an excellent optic on it. However at that time the price of Colts was coming down. I wanted a flattop and could get into one very reasonably-- so went for one. Still have and use both, and don't expect to part with either. But there is NO doubt that the Colt is the better made rifle (which your homework will establish) and it will hold its value much, much better.
I am down on CMMG and probably other drop-in conversions. Never established the exact cause for certain, but after using one with great care I wound up with a bulged barrel on the BM. I replaced it with a LW one which I wanted anyway and dumped the CMMG unit.
50+ years of shooting suggests there is no free lunch. But I could be wrong.
I owned a Bushmaster carbon 15 when I joined this site. Thanks to a few friends and reading numerous threads on different rifles here I have upgraded.
My best friend still currently owns one and has issues with it even after I told him about all my poor experiences.
I had at least one if not all of the following issues almost everytime I went shooting... failure to extract, failure to fire, misfeed/double feeds (about 350 rounds every 3-4 weeks for a little over a year with various types of quality ammo). I took very good care of it and it was fairly accurate. Its not the worst gun I have ever shot but all the malfunctions put its down near the bottom of my list.
After going shooting with some friends who owned BCM and LMT rifles one day I came here to read about those brands and am now getting ready to purchase my third BCM..
I'd hate to see someone spend that kind of money on that gun only to find out the same thing I did after I started really getting into the AR platform. It's low quality and it's not reliable. Good luck in your search and I hope this little bit of info is what you were looking for and helps you out.
Last edited by bighawk; 08-07-13 at 19:17.
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