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Thread: Bushmaster C15 5.56/.22 combo

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by RazorBurn View Post
    My Colt LE6920 has went through a few steps of progression. I've slowly made it what I've wanted over the past year and a half. All it lacks is an optic, and it will be getting an Aimpoint Pro at Christmas time. I'll add some pictures of it's progression to this post so you can see how it started out, and what it's become. It certainly hasn't been hard to tailor it to my wants and needs.
    I would like to buy one that is already to stage 3 of your pics, BUT I have no problem starting out with a good basic model and designing it's 'look' and adaptability myself. It was just a matter of finding out that I can do what ever I want to with the Colt 6920. Now it's just a matter of finding a dealer in my area that has access to one.

  2. #52
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    EDIT: I see you have moved on from the Carbon 15, but i'll leave this here in case you have 2nd thoughts about it.

    Before I started working at my current job where I fix guns for a living I worked at a big box store that sold a ton of these carbon 15's. We also have a ton come back for problems, and I still have them come in for problems. These are some of the more common ones:

    The screws for the optic rail thread directly into the polymer upper, these have a tendency to often strip out which means your rail and optic/buis are loose which means you have no way of keeping a zero

    When dropped it is common to have the force of the impact break the lower.

    Where the receiver extension threads into the lower can strip. Also when you put the lower in a block and try to torque down on a castle nut the entire receiver can flex with little force, you do not see this happen with a forged lower.

    When you release the rear takedown pin if you allow the upper to rotate up and smack the lower the force can rip the front takedown pin tabs off.

    It is very easy to accidentally tap the take down pins hard enough to break the receiver by pushing the detents through the lower

    Many current railed hand guards are not compatible with the carbon 15 uppers because the thread pitch is different than the standard.

    The fact that Bushmaster overall has a bad reputation for poor materials and manufacturing processes does not help.

    OP please do not throw your money away on this. There are so many better options out there.
    Last edited by VIP3R 237; 08-07-13 at 21:47.
    I paint spaceship parts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    Stippled Glocks are like used underwear; previous owner makes all the difference in value.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gungho View Post
    I would like to buy one that is already to stage 3 of your pics, BUT I have no problem starting out with a good basic model and designing it's 'look' and adaptability myself. It was just a matter of finding out that I can do what ever I want to with the Colt 6920. Now it's just a matter of finding a dealer in my area that has access to one.
    If there's a good local dealer with one then that's great. If not, find a dealer with a cheap or reasonable transfer fee...and buy it online from Grant or whomever you fancy.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIP3R 237 View Post
    EDIT: I see you have moved on from the Carbon 15, but i'll leave this here in case you have 2nd thoughts about it.

    Before I started working at my current job where I fix guns for a living I worked at a big box store that sold a ton of these carbon 15's. We also have a ton come back for problems, and I still have them come in for problems. These are some of the more common ones:

    The screws for the optic rail thread directly into the polymer upper, these have a tendency to often strip out which means your rail and optic/buis are loose which means you have no way of keeping a zero

    When dropped it is common to have the force of the impact break the lower.

    Where the receiver extension threads into the lower can strip. Also when you put the lower in a block and try to torque down on a castle nut the entire receiver can flex with little force, you do not see this happen with a forged lower.

    When you release the rear takedown pin if you allow the upper to rotate up and smack the lower the force can rip the front takedown pin tabs off.

    It is very easy to accidentally tap the take down pins hard enough to break the receiver by pushing the detents through the lower

    Many current railed hand guards are not compatible with the carbon 15 uppers because the thread pitch is different than the standard.

    The fact that Bushmaster overall has a bad reputation for poor materials and manufacturing processes does not help.

    OP please do not throw your money away on this. There are so many better options out there.
    Thank you.

    As a Gunsmith, what is your opinion of the Colt 6920? Great, Good, Fair, Bad?

    Would you like to tell me some of the problems you may have come across with that model?

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gungho View Post
    Thank you.

    As a Gunsmith, what is your opinion of the Colt 6920? Great, Good, Fair, Bad?

    Would you like to tell me some of the problems you may have come across with that model?
    Well I have 2 in my safe at home if that's any indication of what I think. For the price you can't get better, it is a solid quality carbine that out of the box there is nothing to worry about. Now as with any rifle you do want to go over and inspect before buying if that is an option, I was working on one today that had some QC problems but they were an easy fix.

    If you do not have the option of inspecting the rifle in person I would recommend purchasing from a reputable retailer such as Grant from G&R, if by some chance you do run into problems he will take care of you.
    I paint spaceship parts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    Stippled Glocks are like used underwear; previous owner makes all the difference in value.

  6. #56
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    Re: Bushmaster C15 5.56/.22 combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Gungho View Post
    I would like to buy one that is already to stage 3 of your pics, BUT I have no problem starting out with a good basic model and designing it's 'look' and adaptability myself. It was just a matter of finding out that I can do what ever I want to with the Colt 6920. Now it's just a matter of finding a dealer in my area that has access to one.
    The Magpul MOE handguard, in pic 2 and 3, can mount a light or laser or both. In the 3rd pic there are only 5 small and relatively inexpensive changes that were made from its original state. Removal of carry handle, addition of rear flip-up iron sight, Magpul handguard, Magpul grip and Magpul vertical grip.

    I would suggest a slow pace with the add-ons. Get a high quality, basic rifle and shoot it. Get comfortable with it and maybe take some Carbine/Defensive Shooting classes. As you spend time with it you'll learn what you need to change to accomplish all the roles you've set for a rifle. It will save you money, and weight, in the long run by not adding a bunch of peripherals you don't really need.


    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    Last edited by .46caliber; 08-07-13 at 22:54.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gungho View Post
    Thank you.

    As a Gunsmith, what is your opinion of the Colt 6920? Great, Good, Fair, Bad?

    Would you like to tell me some of the problems you may have come across with that model?
    I'm no professional gunsmith, but you can think of it as a Toyota HiLux from the early 90's. Not a ton of features, but it's the benchmark by which anything can be measured for lifetime of use in rugged environments. There is a very short list of companies that can provide comparable or better rifles (better meaning they include intelligent added factory features or slight product evolutions and specializations which are helpful to end users - BCM, DD, LMT, KAC, Noveske), but all those are going to be around that price or more expensive - and for the last few years, if anything was sold at a new price lower than a used 6920, it's an absolute bet the cheaper rifle cut corners to get there, usually stuff that negatively affects function. If you need a rifle that does everything well, the 6920 is the answer.

    Why you'll see it recommended is that it's from the most consistent brand, built from a proprietary TDP which is THE correct way to build AR's, it's the most affordable rifle that will have high mean rounds bet ween failure, and mostly it isn't possible to buy the 'wrong' one - the 6920 is the most available and most reasonable model to get among them.


    As far as being terse - I'm the sort of guy who blows off MD's when I tell them it's easily found with google, so I know my standards can be unreasonable, but a lot of what you're researching can be found, if you're judicious about sources.
    On the topic of judicious about sources, whatever local source you have is only about half an hour of reading from good sources ahead of where you're at now - spend a week on this site, watch some YouTube videos from CREDIBLE trainers, and then read some more (on average, each hour spend reading is $50 on dumb parts avoided. This estimate is low-ball).

    So, abuse Google Site Search (the orange search doo-hickey here, or just open up google and add ' site:www.m4carbine.net '), and you'll get access to more information than you can take in with under a week of time - but that's a good thing.
    Last edited by TehLlama; 08-08-13 at 01:46.
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  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by TehLlama View Post
    (on average, each hour spend reading is $50 on dumb parts avoided. This estimate is low-ball).
    This is priceless advice right here.

    You;re right, the Mossberg .22 offering is complete crap. The M&P 15-22 is the benchmark for AR styled .22's. Throw a Primary Arms micro on it and call it done. You can get decent conversions but they sometimes take quite a bit of tuning to work properly. I have a dedicated .22lr upper with a modified Ciener conversion kit utilizing a cut down Ruger 10/22 barrel. It too a LOT of tuning to run properly.

    As for the 5.56 AR, the pendulum has swung several times over the years. Right now in 5.56, the most common and preferred setup if you only have one AR is a 16" mid or lightweight ("LW") profile, chrome lined, hammer forged (nice, but not necessary) with a 1in7 twist rate and true 5.56 chamber. top it with a red dot optic such as the Aimpoint Micro or Pro and use a fixed "F" marked FSB (front sight base) and fixed rear like a Daniel Defense A1.5 or similar. Handguards are personal preference. Mil-std 1913 picatinny rails have been preferred for a long time, but that pendulum has swung to "slick" forends with rail attachment points. Everything you need and nothing you don't. The new hotness is rails like Vltor, Noveske, Fortis, Geissele, etc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keymod

    If you're ever going to mount a magnified optic on the gun, you'll want folding backup iron sights (BIUS) such as Troy or Magpul make. Make sure you get a mil-spec vs. commercial stock tube (correctly called the receiver extension or "RE" for short.). This will allow you the greatest number of stock options with the best fit.

    Here are a couple of different way you can go:

    First up is a Noveske lower/BCM upper rifle. The lower has a mil-spec RE with a Magpul CTR stock. The lower parts kit is Daniel Defense with a Geissele SSA trigger. The upper is a LW mid-gas 14.5" BCM with pinned BattleComp 1.5 (makes it legal minimum length). The mid-length gas system offers a smoother recoil impulse than a carbine length (9" vs. 7"), but isn't completely necessary. It's just a nice feature to have. If you're getting a carbile length, it's critical to get it from a good source such as Colt, Daniel Defense or BCM. They are correctly gassed for optimum function without excess wear and tear. Many low quality AR's are overgassed intentionally to make up for low quality ammo and poor maintenance by the end user.

    Forened is an inexpensive MOE, utilizing an Impact Weapons Components QD sling stud and Surefire 600 Scout mount. It's light, sturdy and a lot less expensive than most free float forends. All in all, it's a tidy package that works every time.





    Next up is a Noveske Rogue Hunter 18". This is the precision rig for longer ranges. It's heavier and more accurate. It will also run as fast as you can keep up with accuracy. LOTS of mods and upgrades on this rig, so I'm not going to list them all as you may not start out this way. This total rig would run about $3,500, without the suppressor.






    So that's why it's so important to go research each segment of the rifle for what will work best in your intended role for a reasonable cost. The more time you spend researching, the more happy you'll be with your choices.
    Last edited by glocktogo; 08-08-13 at 02:24.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by glocktogo View Post
    This is priceless advice right here.

    You;re right, the Mossberg .22 offering is complete crap. The M&P 15-22 is the benchmark for AR styled .22's. Throw a Primary Arms micro on it and call it done. You can get decent conversions but they sometimes take quite a bit of tuning to work properly. I have a dedicated .22lr upper with a modified Ciener conversion kit utilizing a cut down Ruger 10/22 barrel. It too a LOT of tuning to run properly.

    As for the 5.56 AR, the pendulum has swung several times over the years. Right now in 5.56, the most common and preferred setup if you only have one AR is a 16" mid or lightweight ("LW") profile, chrome lined, hammer forged (nice, but not necessary) with a 1in7 twist rate and true 5.56 chamber. top it with a red dot optic such as the Aimpoint Micro or Pro and use a fixed "F" marked FSB (front sight base) and fixed rear like a Daniel Defense A1.5 or similar. Handguards are personal preference. Mil-std 1913 picatinny rails have been preferred for a long time, but that pendulum has swung to "slick" forends with rail attachment points. Everything you need and nothing you don't. The new hotness is rails like Vltor, Noveske, Fortis, Geissele, etc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keymod

    If you're ever going to mount a magnified optic on the gun, you'll want folding backup iron sights (BIUS) such as Troy or Magpul make. Make sure you get a mil-spec vs. commercial stock tube (correctly called the receiver extension or "RE" for short.). This will allow you the greatest number of stock options with the best fit.

    Here are a couple of different way you can go:

    First up is a Noveske lower/BCM upper rifle. The lower has a mil-spec RE with a Magpul CTR stock. The lower parts kit is Daniel Defense with a Geissele SSA trigger. The upper is a LW mid-gas 14.5" BCM with pinned BattleComp 1.5 (makes it legal minimum length). The mid-length gas system offers a smoother recoil impulse than a carbine length (9" vs. 7"), but isn't completely necessary. It's just a nice feature to have. If you're getting a carbile length, it's critical to get it from a good source such as Colt, Daniel Defense or BCM. They are correctly gassed for optimum function without excess wear and tear. Many low quality AR's are overgassed intentionally to make up for low quality ammo and poor maintenance by the end user.

    Forened is an inexpensive MOE, utilizing an Impact Weapons Components QD sling stud and Surefire 600 Scout mount. It's light, sturdy and a lot less expensive than most free float forends. All in all, it's a tidy package that works every time.





    Next up is a Noveske Rogue Hunter 18". This is the precision rig for longer ranges. It's heavier and more accurate. It will also run as fast as you can keep up with accuracy. LOTS of mods and upgrades on this rig, so I'm not going to list them all as you may not start out this way. This total rig would run about $3,500, without the suppressor.






    So that's why it's so important to go research each segment of the rifle for what will work best in your intended role for a reasonable cost. The more time you spend researching, the more happy you'll be with your choices.
    Thank You Very Much! You have given me a lot of good info and a lot to think about and look (research) for before making my ultimate decision.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by TehLlama View Post
    I'm no professional gunsmith, but you can think of it as a Toyota HiLux from the early 90's. Not a ton of features, but it's the benchmark by which anything can be measured for lifetime of use in rugged environments. There is a very short list of companies that can provide comparable or better rifles (better meaning they include intelligent added factory features or slight product evolutions and specializations which are helpful to end users - BCM, DD, LMT, KAC, Noveske), but all those are going to be around that price or more expensive - and for the last few years, if anything was sold at a new price lower than a used 6920, it's an absolute bet the cheaper rifle cut corners to get there, usually stuff that negatively affects function. If you need a rifle that does everything well, the 6920 is the answer.

    Why you'll see it recommended is that it's from the most consistent brand, built from a proprietary TDP which is THE correct way to build AR's, it's the most affordable rifle that will have high mean rounds bet ween failure, and mostly it isn't possible to buy the 'wrong' one - the 6920 is the most available and most reasonable model to get among them.


    As far as being terse - I'm the sort of guy who blows off MD's when I tell them it's easily found with google, so I know my standards can be unreasonable, but a lot of what you're researching can be found, if you're judicious about sources.
    On the topic of judicious about sources, whatever local source you have is only about half an hour of reading from good sources ahead of where you're at now - spend a week on this site, watch some YouTube videos from CREDIBLE trainers, and then read some more (on average, each hour spend reading is $50 on dumb parts avoided. This estimate is low-ball).

    So, abuse Google Site Search (the orange search doo-hickey here, or just open up google and add ' site:www.m4carbine.net '), and you'll get access to more information than you can take in with under a week of time - but that's a good thing.
    Thank you for the input......my problem is that I never know the right question to ask 'google' to get the information I'm looking for. For instance: When all this began, I tried typing, "Bushmaster C15 combo reviews" and wound up finding only forums when all I was looking for is people that had had one that had posted reviews about their experiences. As I say, I just never know the right question to ask to get me to the information I'm looking for, and if it doesn't bring up forums it brings up dealers. I know this is a problem with me and not this site or the internet. That's why I started this thread, I needed some answers and guidance.

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