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Thread: Buy Em Cheap and Stack em Deep

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurretGunner View Post
    Grant, I understand where you are coming from. Historicaly, the price between BM/DPMS and companies like colt, early LMT, Early BCM were about the same. In that case there is no comparison.

    We have been fortunate to have alot of newer companies come out who do not make AR's the old way. We have options now. There are good products at all price points.

    I have seen too many of these "garbage brands" that certian people here bash, run... and run well. Just beacuse it does not have BCM or DD or a pony on the side of it, doesn't mean it's a POS.

    It used to be that we evaluate a product, then grade it. Now, people look at a compnany or even a price point, and have their mind made up before they even see the product.

    Can you honestly tell me that a new shooter with limited funds and somone who just wants to learn to shoot, needs to go out and buy a $1500 BCM or DD rifle, when they can get a quality, lower priced brand.

    I have spent alot of money with you over the years grant. In fact you, build me a couple uppers when I was still in Iraq in 2005. The problem is you only recomend products that you sell, and tend to demonize those you don't. Anyone who has been on the board for more than a few months can see this.

    Back to the whole point of this thread was to let people who want to buy a few or a bunch of realitive inexpesnive, YET SERVICEABLE lowers have a stab before they sell out.

    My go to guns are KAC. That doesn't mean I have any sort of issue picking up a PSA or Spikes rifle and shooting the piss out of it.
    From what I know of Grant to date, I think he tends to sell what he recommends, vs recommends what he sells. There's a difference in my book.
    - Will

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    “Those who do not view armed self defense as a basic human right, ignore the mass graves of those who died on their knees at the hands of tyrants.”

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurretGunner View Post
    Combat weapons? Are we a little high on our horse now. What exactly is a combat weapon? One of my combat weapon's (used in combat) was a piece of shit H&R m16A2 that had more miles on it than jenna jamson. It was a malfunction machine, and the only way I was able to get it replaced, was by smashing the barrel on the side of a 5 ton.

    The snobbery around here is sickening. People seem to have this illusion that if they hang around a website that LAV, Haley, Pat Rodgers use, they are somehow an equal. Then they can piss on those who aren't as "enlightened".....
    Just because you used a particular weapon in combat was a POS, does not have shit to do with the a type or class of weapon that you would consider for use in combat.

    I respect your service in combat.
    ....but a little less emotion man!
    I do think that you seem to have a very caustic attitude and dislike for this site, too bad you feel this way.
    You seem to jump to conclusions and can not tolerate any other fact or opinions.

    Hope you have a good day anyway!
    Last edited by LostinKY; 08-16-13 at 14:15.

  3. #53
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    PSA 6-Position Mil-Spec Diameter Buffer Tube 6061, $24.99
    http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...ffer-tube.html

    PSA Complete 5 Position Mil-Spec Diameter Buffer Tube Assembly, $49.95
    http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...-assembly.html

    PSA 6-Position Mil-Spec Diameter Buffer Tube 7075, $34.95
    http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...tube-6305.html

    Quote Originally Posted by TurretGunner View Post
    ...The problem is you [Grant] only recommend products that you sell, and tend to demonize those you don't. Anyone who has been on the board for more than a few months can see this...
    Grant sells what he recommends and refuses to sell what he "demonizes". There is a distinct difference.

    There are technical reason to choose a 7075 RE over one made from 6061. The threads of the 6061 part are going to be softer and greater care must be taken during assembly to prevent damaging them. If made from a forging, 7075 is a better choice. 6061 is a poor choice of material for forging as it's susceptible to intergranular inclusions which cause corrosion. That's why AR receivers were changed from 6061 to 7075 very early on. This isn't a problem if the RE is extruded. 6061 is a better alloy for extruding than 7075.

    From a practical standpoint, the shooter probably won't see a difference in performance between a forged RE made of 7075 and an extruded RE made of 6061, but the difference in price is a mere $10. You make a good point about barrels, but that discussion would completely derail this thread.

    When it comes to advertising, it's been my experience that the buyer needs to learn the language of the seller, whether it's PSA, BCM, G&R Tactical or anyone else. Some are clear, some are harder to understand and some rely heavily on obfuscation and misdirection. It's up to the buyer to determine what the seller is saying or hiding and make their purchases accordingly
    Last edited by MistWolf; 08-16-13 at 12:50.
    INSIDE PLAN OF BOX
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    5. HA-HA!!

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  4. #54
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    So who has data on failure rates for PA lowers?
    Daniel


    Never send a nail to do a screw's job.

  5. #55
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    I picked up one of these lowers for $199. Mental masturbation aside its a good deal. I tend to be a "stockpiler" and I make no bones about it. I do not resale for profit either. Its not a matter of "if" there is another serious threat to our rights but "when".

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurretGunner View Post
    Grant, I understand where you are coming from. Historicaly, the price between BM/DPMS and companies like colt, early LMT, Early BCM were about the same. In that case there is no comparison.

    We have been fortunate to have alot of newer companies come out who do not make AR's the old way. We have options now. There are good products at all price points.

    I have seen too many of these "garbage brands" that certian people here bash, run... and run well. Just beacuse it does not have BCM or DD or a pony on the side of it, doesn't mean it's a POS.
    The definition of "good" is always in the eye of the beholder. Most people shoot UNDER 500rds a YEAR. In this instance, buy whatever you like (as it really doesn't matter).

    It used to be that we evaluate a product, then grade it. Now, people look at a compnany or even a price point, and have their mind made up before they even see the product.
    At least for me, the ONLY factory built gun I actually shoot is a KAC SR15 MOD1. All my AR's are built by ME from parts that I like. So I evaluate AR's on their quality of components and how they are assembled. Everything else is irrelevant.

    Can you honestly tell me that a new shooter with limited funds and somone who just wants to learn to shoot, needs to go out and buy a $1500 BCM or DD rifle, when they can get a quality, lower priced brand.
    Who says they have to spend that? I have BCM and Colt AR's in stock for a little over $1k! Hell, buy the best CHEAP AR on the market (S&W SPORT)! Nothing beats it IMHO.

    I have spent alot of money with you over the years grant. In fact you, build me a couple uppers when I was still in Iraq in 2005. The problem is you only recomend products that you sell, and tend to demonize those you don't. Anyone who has been on the board for more than a few months can see this.
    Demonize is a pretty aggressive word I think. Tell the truth is more like it.

    Back to the whole point of this thread was to let people who want to buy a few or a bunch of realitive inexpesnive, YET SERVICEABLE lowers have a stab before they sell out.
    This really isn't the forum forum that. There is a thread for that topic.




    C4

  7. #57
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    Since people are getting "technical", nothing is truly milspec unless if it is produced for procurement under a .gov contract and manufactured by a certified / contracted manufacturer / vendor and meets the TDP specs and goes under .gov inspectors and passes those inspections.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillBrink View Post
    From what I know of Grant to date, I think he tends to sell what he recommends, vs recommends what he sells. There's a difference in my book.
    Correct Sir. When I have a COP or .MIL guy standing in my shop asking me what gun should they bet their life on, I cannot recommend (in good conscience) a gun that I do not believe in. Other dealers might be able to sleep at night, but I cannot.

    So if I won't own it, I don't sell it. Simple as that. Let us also realize that the BULK of the gun business is in the LOW END firearms, accessories and ammo (like 80%). I choose to only operate in the 20% (high quality items). Could I make more money if I lowered my standards? Yep, sure could.


    C4

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surf View Post
    Since people are getting "technical", nothing is truly milspec unless if it is produced for procurement under a .gov contract and manufactured by a certified / contracted manufacturer / vendor and meets the TDP specs and goes under .gov inspectors and passes those inspections.
    No disrespect here, more of a curiousness of semantics. If I were to build a house to a specification set to DR Horton, would that house not be a "DR Horton Spec" house? Same concept. If it is built to the Military Specifications outlined in the TDP, could not any manufacturer who follows the specs be building a "Milspec" rifle. Meaning built to spec? There would be no way to "prove" that it is built to Milspec without testing it, but if it proved to be built with the called for materials and to the dimensions and "specs" than would it not be " Milspec?"
    I do ask this bc I have seen people bring this up many times here and other places.
    Last edited by steyrman13; 08-16-13 at 14:15.

  10. #60
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    So what some of you are saying...

    That this:

    http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...-kit-2632.html

    Added to one of the blemished lowers they throw on sale from time to time for around $70 which brings the grand total up to $570 is not a good deal?

    It does have the proper specs on the BCG and barrel. But minus the 7075 RE and H1 buffer, so add in another $23 for the buffer, $35 for the RE and you still come in well under seven bills for the whole thing.

    I understand some want the "best" for hard use carbines, but are we getting too far into specifics to see that sometimes inexpensive does not mean cheap?
    Experience is a cruel teacher, gives the exam first and then the lesson.

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