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Thread: PSA 16'' PA-15 HF SS12G2 Carbine Initial inspection and range report.

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinlessorrow View Post
    Pulled very early PSA barrel. In order for FNH to make a barrel for the commercial market a makers must submit the design including gas port.
    It maybe a pulled PSA barrel but it is still an FN marked M-4 barrel; this was in response to Grant's statement "That is because FN doesn't make any commercially available AR's or AR barrels (with their name on it).
    C4" They do make one with their name on it.


    They cannot make their own barrels to sale to civilians since Colt owns the TDP.

    That is why gas port could be anything, the manuf. tells FNH what they want.
    I'm not trying to nitpick this just answering some questions.

    .
    Last edited by AMMOTECH; 08-18-13 at 18:24.
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by wahoo95 View Post
    Looks like excellent performance in my opinion so not sure why you were disappointed.
    I expected sub-moa consistency from the SPEER GDSP, extrapolating from the sub 1 inch, 9 shot group at 50yards. I was a bit disappointed that the Hornady 75g TAP out performed the SPEER... I have WAY more SPEER than Hornady. As far as performance of the rifle over all I am satisfied. The Hornady ranged from that sub-MOA group to about 1.5 inch groups... so even from the same brand out of the same case there is variance.

    Most of the ammo you shot was 2-3moa ammo on a good day so no surprises you were getting 2" groups.
    That is almost verbatim what a re-loader picking up brass said to me and added that if I wanted consistent sub MOA out of the rifle I would have to start reloading. I wish I had the time.
    Last edited by signkutter; 08-18-13 at 19:12.

  3. #43
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    What are you using this for? Are you going to shoot at Camp Perry or the new classified AR league in the olympics?

    If someone takes your rifle and shoots someone at 200 yards and puts 9 rounds into a 5" group are they going to be more or less dead in the end?

    Will a 3 MOA group kill you deader?

    Quote Originally Posted by signkutter View Post
    I expected sub-moa consistency from the SPEER GDSP, extrapolating from the sub 1 inch, 9 shot group at 50yards. I was a bit disappointed that the Hornady 75g TAP out performed the SPEER... I have WAY more SPEER than Hornady. As far as performance of the rifle over all I am satisfied. The Hornady ranged from that sub-MOA group to about 1.5 inch groups... so even from the same brand out of the same case there is variance.

    That is almost verbatim what a re-loader picking up brass said to me and added that if I wanted consistent sub MOA out of the rifle I would have to start reloading. I wish I had the time.



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  4. #44
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    Re: PSA 16'' PA-15 HF SS12G2 Carbine Initial inspection and range report.

    Quote Originally Posted by signkutter View Post
    I expected sub-moa consistency from the SPEER GDSP, extrapolating from the sub 1 inch, 9 shot group at 50yards. I was a bit disappointed that the Hornady 75g TAP out performed the SPEER... I have WAY more SPEER than Hornady. As far as performance of the rifle over all I am satisfied. The Hornady ranged from that sub-MOA group to about 1.5 inch groups... so even from the same brand out of the same case there is variance.

    That is almost verbatim what a re-loader picking up brass said to me and added that if I wanted consistent sub MOA out of the rifle I would have to start reloading. I wish I had the time.
    Yeah reloading changes the way you view ammo. Its VERY difficult to get sub moa from factory loaded ammo....even the match grade stuff since there is no guarantee that your particular barrel will like that ammo.
    Also performance at a given distance doesn't always transfer to performance at another distance which explains your results with the Speer. Reloaders understand this concept and will loss their ammo to its best performance at their chosen distance. I have a load using 77gr SMK that I use specifically for a steel plate match locally which is shot at 200-300yds iron sights only on 7"x13" plates. My load prints terribly at 50yds but is easily 1moa or better out at 300yds. I worked the load up to be very accurate using a magnified optic so that its very forgiving using iron sights against the timer.
    My point is that unless you're gonna start loading your own ammo dont go spending too much money buying a bunch of factory loaded match grade stuff trying to get sub moa performance.
    Last edited by wahoo95; 08-18-13 at 19:45.

  5. #45
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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    What are you using this for?
    Shooting bullets at stuff. The closer those bullets impact where I am aiming the better!

    Are you going to shoot at Camp Perry or the new classified AR league in the olympics?
    If I find myself near Camp Perry .. why the heck not? Is there a new AR league in the Olympics?!? Because I'll bet the U.S is gonna stomp the world in that one... they should also make an Olympic monster truck derby!!


    If someone takes your rifle and shoots someone at 200 yards and puts 9 rounds into a 5" group are they going to be more or less dead in the end?
    9 rounds in a 5" group!!! In one Dude!?! I'm going with MORE DEAD man!!! At 200yards thats some serious accurate and fast shooting.... we are talking Robo-Cop levels here man..!

    Will a 3 MOA group kill you deader?
    I think so man... if you sink a 3 moa group into a dude.. he is gonna be more deader than not. If that dude is standing about 25 yards in front of you... thats clover-leafin time. Definitely more dead... but not as dead as a 1 MOA group...
    Last edited by signkutter; 08-18-13 at 19:58.

  6. #46
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    I guess you're not getting the point. Enjoy your AR.

    [QUOTE=signkutter;1724263]

    Shooting bullets at stuff. The closer those bullets impact where I am aiming the better!



    If I find myself near Camp Perry .. why the heck not? Is there a new AR league in the Olympics?!? Because I'll bet the U.S is gonna stomp the world in that one... they should also make an Olympic monster truck derby!!




    9 rounds in a 5" group!!! In one Dude!?! I'm going with MORE DEAD man!!! At 200yards thats some serious accurate and fast shooting.... we are talking Robo-Cop levels here man..!



    I think so man... if you sink a 3 moa group into a dude.. he is gonna be more deader than not. If that dude is standing about 25 yards in front of you... thats clover-leafin time. Definitely more dead... but not as dead as a 1 MOA group...



    Owner/Instructor at Semper Paratus Arms

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SemperParatusArms/

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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by wahoo95 View Post
    Yeah reloading changes the way you view ammo. Its VERY difficult to get sub moa from factory loaded ammo....even the match grade stuff since there is no guarantee that your particular barrel will like that ammo.
    Also performance at a given distance doesn't always transfer to performance at another distance which explains your results with the Speer. Reloaders understand this concept and will loss their ammo to its best performance at their chosen distance. I have a load using 77gr SMK that I use specifically for a steel plate match locally which is shot at 200-300yds iron sights only on 7"x13" plates. My load prints terribly at 50yds but is easily 1moa or better out at 300yds. I worked the load up to be very accurate using a magnified optic so that its very forgiving using iron sights against the timer.
    My point is that unless you're gonna start loading your own ammo dont go spending too much money buying a bunch of factory loaded match grade stuff trying to get sub moa performance.
    I hear you. Sounds like a textbook case of diminishing returns for time and money invested. I think the SPEER GDSP and the Hornady TAP will do very well for what I will use the weapon for.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    I guess you're not getting the point. Enjoy your AR.


    I thought you were making your point joking around I.G. I was doing the same, no offense intended.

    But I do enjoy a better than average shooting weapon. If I didn't care about accuracy I would have purchased a Battle Rifle or built a franken AR for $500. I have been qualing and training with a Colt M-4 lfor a good while now and even though it is at best a 3MOA rifle.. I have no problems taking it out in the field..... Now would I rather take out my AR or my AUG... sure... but that isn't an option
    Last edited by signkutter; 08-18-13 at 20:13.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by signkutter View Post
    Range results were not as great as I hoped. After I zeroed the scope ( 1x5 Weaver tactical) at 50 yards I proceeded to print a 9 round group that was .980 so I had high hopes that I would be able to print a 5 round group at 100 yards...

    You do realize that a .980" group at 50 yds is a 1.9 MOA group? I'm not sure why you expected better results at a longer range.
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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by fdxpilot View Post
    You do realize that a .980" group at 50 yds is a 1.9 MOA group? I'm not sure why you expected better results at a longer range.
    Yes I do realize that... but you do realize that holding a 9 round 1.9 MOA group 100 yards out is exponentially harder than holding a 9 round .980 50 yard group right? It is the reason I did not assign MOA to the 50 yard group, it would have been at best naive to think that I could hold a 9 round 1.9 MOA group. ( the group of .980 is a 9 round group, if I had stopped at 5 rounds it would have been a .5 group. My 100 yard groups are 5 rounders, had I stopped at 3 rounds my sub-MOA group % would have risen dramatically)

    Try shooting your best 5 round group at 50 yards ... mathematically double it for a 100 yard group... By your metric... If you shoot a .5" group of 5 @ 50 yards..you should be able to shoot a 1" group of 5 at 100 yards with no problem.

    My best 5 shot group @ 100 yards (using the same ammo I used in the 9 shot .980 50 yard group) was was 1.394, most were in the 2" zone. Had I shot groups of 9... no way would I have come in under 2"
    Try it out and please , no bench rests, just you a table and a range bag, let me know how it goes.
    Last edited by signkutter; 08-19-13 at 13:45.

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