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Thread: Special Forces Worry About M110 Durability

  1. #1
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    Special Forces Worry About M110 Durability


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    Being more or less an OpEd piece, it is difficult to discern how much of it is valid, and how much is simply opinion. Interesting insights on the accuracy front, if true. Trouble is, there is always more to the story, and this reads a bit like a hit-and-run. It would be nice to see some actual data, assuming it exists -- or did exist with some of the earlier rifles.

    AC
    Stand your ground; don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here. -- Captain John Parker, Lexington, 1775.

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    The instructor responded that Colt was the patent holder for the forward assist design and it would have set the entire M110 project back years and millions of dollars to license the design or start from scratch to create something new that performed the same functionality.
    WTF?!

    I went through that course and know a few of the instructors. I'd like to know who he is referring to.....But doesn't sound like anything that would be said. Not saying it didn't happen but it stinks....
    Daniel


    Never send a nail to do a screw's job.

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    another article

    http://kitup.military.com/2011/04/ar...per-rifle.html

    So my guess is that the Army is looking to get a SR25 Carbine into service.

    ETA: Just read the date of the article is from April of 2011. So not all that recent.
    Last edited by Apricotshot; 08-22-13 at 10:38.

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    Yeah, is the CSASS program still underway?
    "The secret to happiness is freedom, and the secret to freedom is courage." - Thucydides, c. 410 BC

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    I have experienced this personally (accuracy drop off in a short period of time)

    Now the Mk20 was supposed to be a replacement for all of the M110's but that gun has issues as well. It also appears that SOCOM has had all of the mk17/mk20 solutions sitting at the J8 since march. There has been no forward progress on the SCAR front because I think there are many who want the the scar to die and we all have Hk417's instead

    I don't agree with that at all, but considering the lack of a 1000% reliable, durable, and fully functional 7.62x51 semi auto precision system is making wonder what the F happened.

    I like the m110 alot and the mk20 even more so. But the fact neither can seem to get the bugs worked out of it after this long tells me that some serious ass chewings need to happen. We are not going to be getting a new major project for small arms for some time IMO.

    The SCAR fiasco will never happen again, I think procurement is going to be headed for a more off the shelf approach. With that the civilian market can in certain ways lead the military one. A shift in focus to more testing on part of the civilian companies who submit the weapon system for procurement (with mil oversight) is probably going to be in order.

    rant over

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    Old Feedback from a Conventional (Army) Division Master Gunner

    From February 2009 (CAVEAT -- I HAVE NOT TOUCHED OR SHOT ONE FOR OVER TWO YEARS NOW):

    Classification: UNCLASSIFIED

    Caveats: NONE

    Morning Sir,

    I am taking the liberty to email you about the M110 issue, and I hope that’s okay. Here’s why:

    Two very good and excellent friends of mine told me you were the man. Brian and Bill, both said you were “as good as they come”. They are excellent friends of mine and we’ve known each other many years. I used to be a SWAT sniper before the war.

    So if it’s okay with you, I would like to speak very frankly with you on this M110 issue. I have spoken by email with CSM XXX and he told me these issues are not new, and they had to “rework” all the 110’s they were using to run a basic sniper course recently.

    So why isn’t the community raising hell? Why isn’t the Army raising hell?

    Bill told me another guy you know, Chuck, used to send these guns back to Knight’s regularly because they didn’t meet spec, when he worked at joint service small arms. I don’t personally know Chuck, but I would bet he could provide a lot more info, and I’ll also bet some of it is very revealing.

    Here’s what I’m hearing so far:

    Bad triggers, cracked bolts, broken bolt stops, safeties falling out, shitty suppressor attachment resulting in POI shifts, cracks in lowers, and so on. Now I’m not an SF guy, or a SEAL or a CAG dude, but I am an Army sniper, and former SWAT sniper. And I can tell when a rifle is a piece of shit. This rifle is a piece of shit sir.

    Not to mention when I personally saw these cracks on the locking lugs, the sniper I was working with called the number the net fielding team gave him, and spoke to a nice lady. She told him she’d add his problems to the “list of problems that have already been identified”. (?!) She had no resolution to offer. That was a big help. Then that sniper called a sniper buddy of his who was deploying, and was told they are leaving their 110’s at home cause they’re pieces of shit, and they’re taking 24’s to the war.

    Bil tells me the DOE is down at Rifles Only right here in Texas training with theirs, and they’re falling apart like Walmart Bicycles.

    I’m sort of floored that some people, influential people I would think, are acting like this is a surprise. I can’t see how. Other people like you, seem to realize the gravity of this situation.

    You bet I’ll do a QDR, and whatever else I need to. I’ll recommend we put em all in a box truck and take em back to Florida. I don’t owe Knight’s a damn thing, but they do owe me a rifle that works, works properly, and won’t blow up in Joe’s face downrange when the lugs shear off the bolt.

    Now, on the other hand, what is the possibility that some of this is being caused by bad ammo? I know M118LR is the holy grail, and I’ve shot my share of it at Haji. But what if? Chuck can tell you about how years ago Lake City was using a test barrel with a 1 in 10 twist when the Marines used 1 in 12 and the Army used 1 in 11.25 so the ammo wasn’t working out. What are the odds the ammo is just a little too hot? It might not ever show up in a bolt gun, but it’s just enough to break down a gas gun?

    That wouldn’t explain what I saw, cracks in the bolt after 70 rounds, but maybe it could account for some of the problems? I’m just trying to account for all possibilities.

    I appreciate your help sir, and I’ll keep in touch if that’s okay.

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    So what needs to be done to resolve the problems with the M110? If the problems cannot be resolved to the satisfaction of field personnel, what would be a suitable replacement?
    Last edited by T2C; 08-24-13 at 18:10.
    Train 2 Win

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    Quote Originally Posted by T2C View Post
    So what needs to be done to resolve the problems with the M110? If the problems cannot be resolved to the satisfaction of field personnel, what would be a suitable replacement?
    How about a SCAR 17 with a heavy barrel. Doesn't the military already have these.
    Pat
    Serving as a LEO since 1999.
    USPSA# A56876 A Class
    Firearms Instructor
    Armorer for AR15, 1911, Glocks and Remington 870 shotguns.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskapopo View Post
    How about a SCAR 17 with a heavy barrel. Doesn't the military already have these.
    Pat
    Dunno, but the SOTIC Committee at Bragg said, "That ain't a sniper rifle," due to the fact it doesn't shoot accurately enough.

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