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Thread: Did I make a bad call on my first build?

  1. #21
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    Don't go to the dark side! Stay with DI.
    Not sure about you guys, but I'm only here for the free food and open bar.

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  2. #22
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    Sig sells piston uppers...pretty simple design, no complex parts, mine runs fine....they are a little more front end heavy.

    The other piston advantage nobody mentioned...they will function with a wide variety of ammo...I think that would matter to a civilian.

    I'm not looking to start a debate either...IMO both DI and piston AR (that were designed as piston AR's) are fine weapons.

    If it were not for trying new things M4Carbine.net would be Matchlock.net

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhoenixx View Post
    What are your concerns with the lower? I was under the impression that mil-spec lowers are basically all the same (with the exception of ambis like AXTS).

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    Not concern, mere personal aesthetic taste. Just don't care for the pirates or spider. If I were 40 years younger they would probably be just the ticket.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridgerunner665 View Post
    Sig sells piston uppers...pretty simple design, no complex parts, mine runs fine....they are a little more front end heavy.
    A gas tube is still a simpler design and can be easily obtained. Where, besides Sig, can you get replacement parts if needed? And you never know how long those parts will be available in the long run if they decide to switch up the design.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridgerunner665 View Post
    Sig sells piston uppers...pretty simple design, no complex parts, mine runs fine....they are a little more front end heavy.

    The other piston advantage nobody mentioned...they will function with a wide variety of ammo...I think that would matter to a civilian.

    I'm not looking to start a debate either...IMO both DI and piston AR (that were designed as piston AR's) are fine weapons.

    If it were not for trying new things M4Carbine.net would be Matchlock.net

    What ammo is there available that a piston will run but say a Colt 6920 won't?


    With a piston gun, you get:

    1. Increased weight
    2. Increased felt recoil
    3. Increased cost
    4. Increased cost of parts
    5. Harder to fix on your own


    What's not to like!

    With that said, there are some piston guns that I would own (HK 416).


    C4

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    What ammo is there available that a piston will run but say a Colt 6920 won't?


    With a piston gun, you get:

    1. Increased weight
    2. Increased felt recoil
    3. Increased cost
    4. Increased cost of parts
    5. Harder to fix on your own


    What's not to like!

    With that said, there are some piston guns that I would own (HK 416).


    C4
    If the piston rifle is designed right, it will be more reliable than an a Colt when things start getting gritty and dirty. For that metric we would have to branch off into rifles that were designed to be Piston operated from the get go... Like an HK, SCAR, AUG or an AK ... common knowledge that these piston driven weapons are more reliable and require less maintenance and are faster, quicker to field strip and clean than the DI mil-spec AR platform. Gas setting capability is a big advantage when things get hot, dirty and gritty.

    In July 2007, the U.S. Army announced a limited competition between the M4 carbine, FN SCAR, HK416, XCR, and the previously-shelved HK XM8. Ten examples of each of the four competitors were involved. Each weapon fired 6,000 rounds in an "extreme dust environment". The purpose of the shoot-off was for assessing future needs, not to select a replacement for the M4.[9][10] The XM8 scored the best, with only 127 stoppages in 60,000 total rounds, the FN SCAR Light had 226 stoppages, while the HK416 had 233 stoppages. The M4 carbine scored "significantly worse" than the rest of the field with 882 stoppages.[3]
    Last edited by signkutter; 08-23-13 at 09:20.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by signkutter View Post
    If the piston rifle is designed right, it will be more reliable than an a Colt when things start getting gritty and dirty. For that metric we would have to branch off into rifles that were designed to be Piston operated from the get go... Like an AUG or an AK... common knowledge that these piston driven weapons are more reliable and require less maintenance than your average mil-spec AR platform. Gas setting capability is a big advantage when things get hot, dirty and gritty.
    Oh, I think this is entirely possible, but the one true example of this is the 416. The cost and weight of said gun means that you can own TWO LE690's. You can also get parts and repair the LE6920 ON YOUR OWN.

    True AUG users will tell you that they do not think much of the gun and AK's go down as well (talk to an AK armorer).


    C4

  8. #28
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    Thank you all for the excellent feedback. This forum rocks!

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Oh, I think this is entirely possible, but the one true example of this is the 416. The cost and weight of said gun means that you can own TWO LE690's. You can also get parts and repair the LE6920 ON YOUR OWN.

    True AUG users will tell you that they do not think much of the gun and AK's go down as well (talk to an AK armorer).


    C4
    Come on man, I own an AUG, and it is as accurate as any MIL-Spec AR when operated within its parameters ( proper ammo). It is certainly more reliable and easier, faster to clean. Easier to maneuver in close quarters, much easier in a vehicle, you can fire it accurately one handed if need be. But it is heavier than your average M-4 (but easier to bring to bear since all the weight is close to your body) and more expensive than your bottom of the barrel Colt, DD or BCM, about as much $ as your higher end ones. Less customizable. Stock AUG trigger is to heavy and creepy but with $80 and 15 minutes you can have a 5 pound short and crisp trigger that will rival any combat, SD AR trigger, plus I have two spare parts kits that will cover 99.9% of what can break or wear on the rifle for the next 50k rounds.

    Why would any AUG owner(= "true AUG owner") not like their weapon? If an AUG owner likes his weapon, is he still a "true" owner ? I have talked to a few Customs Agents who carried them for over 5 and ten years as a duty weapon and they loved them. In fact i haven't encountered many AUG owners in RL or internet that didn't love their AUG. I didn't even own an AR platform weapon for over 2 years ( sold both of them) after purchasing an AUG. I recently purchased an AR platform when I found a deal I couldn't refuse on a quality built rifle (with an optic included in its price).

    As far as "AK's go down as well". Quality AK's go down alot less often than Colt M-4's ( ask any AK armorer). Any gun will will go down eventually. But it simply isnt true that a quality built AK costs any more than a quality M-4 or that it is less reliable. Not as accurate maybe, heavier? sure.

    Plus you forgot to mention the three other piston weapon platforms that outperformed the M-4. Look, I like the AR platform enough to have purchased several over the years. I own one now but I am not going to say that they are better in some aspects than a piston rifle when they clearly arent. Piston rifles aren't better than the M-4 in some regards either, it would be disingenuous to suggest that this this true.
    Last edited by signkutter; 08-23-13 at 10:18.

  10. #30
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