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Thread: Did I make a bad call on my first build?

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by signkutter View Post

    Agreed and applies to the M-4.
    Not really. There is more going on with the M4 than an AK (more complex).




    A person suggesting that a quality built DI gun is superior to an AUG in all circumstances is married to a self serving ideology instead of logic.
    When you evaluate a weapon you take everything into account and rate it as a whole. In this aspect, the AUG loses. That is what we are talking about.

    I keep my AUG because it is more reliable than any AR I have operated( although in most circumstances I very likely will never push the weapon hard enough to realize this advantage). My AUG is a superior choice in home defense because it is as maneuverable as a 10 inch SBR M-4 and I don't need an NFA stamp to own one. It is superior weapon to operate in the confines of a vehicle... all the while maintaining the ammo potential of a full 16 inch barrel.
    I keep my AUG because I think it is just cool looking. You will never see me with it at a shooting school or as a primary defensive weapon.

    I looked on your site and you do not sell any of those weapons. But I wouldn't suggest and have not suggested that you make any claim based on self serving motives. In fact I have not even offered an "If the shoe fits" metaphor to qualify any accusations.
    Really? How hard did you look??

    http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin...n&key=SBR-P-12

    http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin...tion&key=6940P

    http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin...tion&key=TSB18


    srael for one. Pick a country in S.A and you have a 75% chance of picking one the U.S government has GIVEN a military group small arms . Sit back a bit and watch the Syrian rebels get small arms that will include rifles..(even though they want bigger heaver weapons instead)
    How much did Israel pay? Which South American Countries? How much did they pay? List please.



    Please learn how to use the quotation system (as it makes it harder to quote you).



    C4
    Last edited by C4IGrant; 08-23-13 at 12:07.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzed250 View Post
    What I got from that story was "keep it wet and it will work".
    With proper maintenace and lube the AR platform works amazingly well. This fact does not negate the fact that a quality piston driven rifle will operate with less maintenance and less lube than a DI gun.

    The only decision left is... are you willing to give up the advantages the DI rifle offers in order to take advantage of the strengths of a piston rifle. Same logic applies to choosing a conventional rifle over a bullpup or vice-versa. It is a decision that should be based on logic and application.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by signkutter View Post
    With proper maintenace and lube the AR platform works amazingly well. This fact does not negate the fact that a quality piston driven rifle will operate with less maintenance and less lube than a DI gun.

    The only decision left is... are you willing to give up the advantages the DI rifle offers in order to take advantage of the strengths of a piston rifle. Same logic applies to choosing a conventional rifle over a bullpup or vice-versa. It is a decision that should be based on logic and application.
    Did you read the article? How can you have less maintenance than none at all?

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by signkutter View Post
    With proper maintenace and lube the AR platform works amazingly well. This fact does not negate the fact that a quality piston driven rifle will operate with less maintenance and less lube than a DI gun.

    The only decision left is... are you willing to give up the advantages the DI rifle offers in order to take advantage of the strengths of a piston rifle. Same logic applies to choosing a conventional rifle over a bullpup or vice-versa. It is a decision that should be based on logic and application.

    I think it is important to NOT lump any gun with a piston in it as "better" than a DI gun. In fact, very few piston guns are even any good. Even the 416 (which is the current Tier 1 unit weapon of choice and winner of many .Mil competitions) is heavier and more expensive than a common M4.

    http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-...s-sas-veteran/




    C4
    Last edited by C4IGrant; 08-23-13 at 12:50.

  5. #45
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    Which countries does the US Govt "GIVE AWAY" M4's and M16's too?
    Afghanistan
    It's not about surviving, it's about winning!

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic1 View Post
    Afghanistan
    That does make sense as we need them to defend themselves so we can leave.



    C4

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridgerunner665 View Post
    ...The other piston advantage nobody mentioned...they will function with a wide variety of ammo...I think that would matter to a civilian...
    The physics of operation remains the same. If a PIGB (Piston In Gas Block) upper runs on a wider variety of ammo, chances are it's over gassed which explains the harsher recoil. The only time an AR has much trouble running a variety of ammo is when it's tuned to give a softer recoil impulse

    Quote Originally Posted by signkutter View Post
    With proper maintenace and lube the AR platform works amazingly well. This fact does not negate the fact that a quality piston driven rifle will operate with less maintenance and less lube than a DI gun...
    Show me the money. I have several PIGB (non-AR) type rifles and they require just as much maintenance as an AR and sometimes more. All require lube. One advantage to the AR is that since I'm keeping it's piston lubed, it's easier to clean away to carbon build up. With the FAL, there is a constant problem with the gas plug becoming very difficult to remove because of the build up of dry fouling.

    PIGB rifles run no cleaner, nor do they run cooler than an AR with it's piston located in the BCG. Fouling and heat generated by the cartridge on firing remains the same no matter what rifle they are fired in. What's different is where the fouling gets dumped. Whether a rifle has it's piston in the BCG or in the gas block, heat is about the same. One major difference is the piston of a PIGB design is exposed to much more heat and has less surface area to deal with it.

    Uppers that show an improvement in reliability during heavy firing schedules all have one thing in common, whether it's PIGB or PIBCG- they have greater barrel mass between the chamber and gas block
    INSIDE PLAN OF BOX
    1. ROAD-RUNNER LIFTS GLASS OF WATER- PULLING UP MATCH
    2. MATCH SCRATCHES ON MATCH-BOX
    3. MATCH LIGHTS FUSE TO TNT
    4. BOOM!
    5. HA-HA!!

    -WILE E. COYOTE, AUTHOR OF "EVERYTHING I NEEDED TO KNOW IN LIFE, I LEARNED FROM GOLDBERG & MURPHY"

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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzed250 View Post
    Did you read the article? How can you have less maintenance than none at all?
    I did. That SLP 2000 in a quality gun is very effective. I cleaned my AUG once since I bought it ( initial inspection). I very lightly lube the bolt once in awhile and run a boresnake down the barrel. I scrape the piston assembly once in awhile. So yep as little maintenance so far.. but I only have about 1500-2000 rounds down my AUG. Lubing your gun is maintenance.
    Last edited by signkutter; 08-23-13 at 13:12.

  9. #49
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    This fact does not negate the fact that a quality piston driven rifle will operate with less maintenance and less lube than a DI gun.
    That is somewhat of a modified truth, and does not give a realistic view on the subject.

    There are WAY to many factors at play when it comes to maintenance requirements and lube requirements. Gun powder residue build up is really of no concern, malfunction wise, operationally. There are other, environmental, factors that play a bigger role. There is also a big difference in regards to firing schedules; 5000 rounds in 1 day, vs 5000 rounds, 1 round per day.

    We have had people break HK416s in two weeks of pre-deployment shooting training, as well as guns with more external wear than internal wear, due more to rough handling than actual rounds through the gun. We have had HK416s malfunction and Lock completely up during a pretty heavy TIC, due to lax maintenance routines, and for the most part guns with no issues at all for the guys who take care of their gear.

    Being deployed is not the time to find out how many rounds you gun can go without cleaning before it malfunctions.

    I am usually in the minority here when it comes to maintenance routines, but I cleaned my weapon every day in the field when on exercise or on ops, and after every range session. And I carried the HK416.
    It's not about surviving, it's about winning!

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    That does make sense as we need them to defend themselves so we can leave.



    C4
    Hence the wink.
    It's not about surviving, it's about winning!

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