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Thread: Did I make a bad call on my first build?

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    LOL, so you don't think that you have been arguing that the AUG is a better ALL AROUND gun than the M4??? Interesting.

    I keep my AUG because it is more reliable than any AR I have operated( although in most circumstances I very likely will never push the weapon hard enough to realize this advantage). My AUG is a superior choice in home defense because it is as maneuverable as a 10 inch SBR M-4 and I don't need an NFA stamp to own one. It is superior weapon to operate in the confines of a vehicle... all the while maintaining the ammo potential of a full 16 inch barrel.



    C4
    Where in that post does it say that the AUG is more adaptable, lighter, more accurate, cheaper, available than an M4... you cant just assume what you dont see because you want to discredit my opinion. You cant seem to stop using straw-man arguments to support your biased opinions. I cant point out your straw-man arguments too pointedly because my posts get censored.

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caduceus View Post
    Nevermind
    The US has supplied the ANA with M16s, M4s, M249s, M240s, HMMWVs and probably other equipment as well.

    I am of course not privvy to the details of this arrangement, but based on what I was told in 2009, I don't think they paid much....
    It's not about surviving, it's about winning!

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    I wasn't talking about AUGs. I was talking about the claim a PIGB can use a wider variety of ammo

    I was talking about the AUG as a rifle designed as a piston rifle as opposed to a DI AR.
    I do not. 60*f isn't enough at that temp level to make two fiqs difference to the steel used. I also believe that if the tests were performed using the same barrel profiles, the temp differences would be less. Barrel profile is more important to heat control that where the piston is located
    Fair enough... but that bolt is going to get a lot hotter if a higher continuous round count is maintained. I dont know enough about AR piston driven rifles to comment but I was under the impression that the video i posted was a direct comparison between a DI gun and a piston gun

    You don't need to scrape the carbon from the AR piston. Sometimes folks design and sell tools because to make money, not because there is a real need. I don't claim the AR doesn't need to be cleaned- that would be silly of me. My point is that the "clear advantages" of a PIGB over a PIC (Piston In Carrier) are neither clear nor advantageous

    PIGB or PIC I defer to your experience
    PIGB or PIC I defer to your experience

  4. #74
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    Ummmm...so yeah... I'm gonna stick with the DI set up. Thanks again guys.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 4

  5. #75
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    Heated debate! Fantastic! Why are the interwebs great, you ask? Heated debate, I say. That and turtles. I like turtles. And just to remain on topic, the AR-15 platform is the most ergonomic and versatile firearm ever built. In my worthless opinion it's simpler mechanically than an AK, and easier to use. And I love running AKs. I'm sure we will be seeing pictures of little Iraqi or Syrian kids with M4s in the near future.
    The reason why high speed low drag mclmm units use them is because its the best, simplest tool available to outfit a unit with. Reliablity is no valid concern when you are talking of failures in the fractions of percentage points. In the modern manufacturing era, you can't plan on getting all the gremlins out. Machines fail. All of them, one time or another. Your bolt action will jam, your revolver cylinder will become untimed. Practice your stoppage drills with whatever you choose to be your primary, carry a secondary weapon and a knife.
    I think Mike Pannone just posted something about DI guns on Bravo Company's FaceSpace page. Basically that all arguments against DI guns are nonsense. I would consider that man to be an authority. It also helps that of all the guys who train us, that we know were in the majors, are using DI guns. As soon as the better mouse trap gets built, I'm sure we will hear about it.
    I shaved my gasblock for this?

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    I know that all this "Run my gun for 10k + without cleaning it" is cool and attracts a lot of interest/discussions on forums, but lets be honest for a moment here. What MORON is taking filthy gun into a possible gun fight???????

    What is more important is (in no certain order):

    1. How good are the ergo's?
    2. How accurate is it?
    3. How reliable is it?
    4. How much does it weigh?
    5. How is the trigger?
    6. Flexibility for mounting lights, lasers, etc
    7. How is the recoil impulse?
    8. How much does it cost?

    When we look at all these characteristics, which gun wins?



    C4
    I totally agree. Truth is, I keep my weapons very clean. I just find it amusing when the AR is characterized as some kind of maintenance nightmare. All the points you made show why the AR FOW is so popular in both civilian and military hands.

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by signkutter View Post
    Where in that post does it say that the AUG is more adaptable, lighter, more accurate, cheaper, available than an M4... you cant just assume what you dont see because you want to discredit my opinion. You cant seem to stop using straw-man arguments to support your biased opinions. I cant point out your straw-man arguments too pointedly because my posts get censored.
    Sorry, but when you say something is SUPERIOR to something else, that means that you have taken all things into account (not just one aspect).

    Since you have mentioned that the AUG is SUPERIOR for HD, can you tell me which shoot house classes you have attended with your AUG???

    I also have no idea what a "Straw-man" argument even means (sorry). You can keep using it if it makes you feel good.


    C4
    Last edited by C4IGrant; 08-23-13 at 16:48.

  8. #78
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    [QUOTE=signkutter;1728457]Wrong... its mechanical bias. These things are tools... some work better than others.. thats just reality. You have no $%^&ing idea who I am or what I know. I suppose that you are the spokesman for all the entities you mentioned? or have ever considered that cost, availability, adaptability are factors. The M4 platform has more things designed to snap onto it... period. Its a huge factor in picking a weapon that will be serving a special purpose.

    [QUOTE]

    Thats not groundbreaking info ... but thanks for letting me know


    They would be fools not too. Too much adaptability to give up when going with another platform. Its is the same reason that you see so many new weapon systems resemble or directly mimic the AR ergonomic platform. It has more to do with what is available to tune the M-4 to special purpose than your illusions of M4 infallibility.




    Do you? Have you?


    I dont even know what you are trying to make a point of... My point was that IME the AUG required less maintenance than an M-4... that it is more maneuverable because of its size. If it wasnt more maneuverable because of its size... why the heck were SBR's invented? It logic that a shorter weapon in going to be result in more maneuverability in close quarters. All your spiel of Spec ops and round counts wont change that. Just like my preference for the AUG in certain situations will never negate the advantages of the M-4 platform.

    If you want to "school me" , stick to the subject. I dont care to discuss what the operators in china are using.. it has nothing to do with what i was pointing out
    Please tell us who you are and what you know. Based on what you have said thus far, and your urban myths about firearms, I am going to assume that it's little to none. Playing COD or owning a gun does not make one an expert.

    When you say IME, That means shit here. Plenty of people live in a little bubble and think their small exposure to a weapon or system is somehow representitive to how it really is. If a guy buys a colt 6920 brand new, and it wont run, does that mean Colts are unreliable pieces of shit?

    You have refused to answer basic questions , and in return ask them back to me? Stop deflecting and man up and be honest. If you don't know then state such.

    The Aug is not more manuverable CQB. In fact, throw armor on and you will quicky realize that the fixed LOP sucks and you are better off with a M4 or Mk18. I'm not even getting into clearence drills, mag changes ect, beacuse its not even worth it. The M4 is VERY manuverable in CQB enviroments , and the MK18's real advantage is OAL with a Can on the end.

    Everything you have said has conrtradicted yourself. I'm not sure if you are bi-polar or just grasping at straws.
    Last edited by TurretGunner; 08-23-13 at 17:35.

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Sorry, but when you say something is SUPERIOR to something else, that means that you have taken all things into account (not just one aspect).
    No your wrong, I stated in what areas I considered my AUG superior, very plainly. I have also repeatedly stated that the M4 is superior to the AUG in certain areas. I do not believe that any room for misinterpretation has been provided.

    Since you have mentioned that the AUG is SUPERIOR for HD, can you tell me which shoot house classes you have attended with your AUG???
    Sure, I have taken entry and search classes in the military and as a Federal LEO, I have also participated in exercises as a range safety officer and a firearms instructor... and a student. Then one time I picked up an 11.5" SBR AR and was struck by its compact size and how much easier it was to maneuver in close quarters... like a house for instance. I then considered how the length of a Bullpup 16 inch would be about the same length (if not shorter) and how I wouldn't need to wait for a tax stamp or pay an extra 200$. I used my past experience and training to come to the conclusion that an AUG would be an excellent HD/vehicle rifle while simultaneously comprehending that I would be sacrificing some advantages that an AR provides.

    I also have no idea what a "Straw-man" argument even means (sorry). You can keep using it if it makes you feel good.
    The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:

    Person A has position X.
    Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
    Person B attacks position Y.
    Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.


    The straw-man fallacy never makes anybody feel good but the person creating the straw-man

    C4[/QUOTE]

  10. #80
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    Knock it off, boys -- time now.

    Dispassionate discussion of the issues is always fine, but this has become a parry-and-thrust affair that only serves to put folks on the defensive. If you can't engage on this topic without resorting to the whole "show me where you are right" schtick, then get out of it entirely. I have absolutely no desire to play the heavy, nor to step on any toes, but we don't talk to each other like this here.

    Zero attitude from this point forward. Facts, or impressions based upon facts only. Please and thank you.

    AC
    Stand your ground; don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here. -- Captain John Parker, Lexington, 1775.

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