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Thread: M16/M4/AR15 VS Other. Are we making rational decisions?

  1. #71
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    From personal experience... My first build was a spikes tactical that I some how managed to get upwards of $1900 worth of crap into. As I was building it I became a member here and I just started to read and read and read. I eventually learned that all that added junk is, just that, junk. Some people just have to learn the hard way....
    Did you learn it was junk because people told you it was junk, or did you try it out and have problems with it?

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skintop911 View Post
    Roger that. Not a response to you specifically, just a general observation.
    I know Brother. Just wanted to make sure you knew we were on the same page.



    C4

  3. #73
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    Like CrazyFingers, I'm just a civy, no military, LE or anything of the sort. I have been shooting since I was 10 and let's just say that's quite a few years now.

    A Colt M4 in Dec '12 is my first and could be my only foray into the AR platform. I came to this forum after getting it but felt at the time of purchase, and especially after reading here that I did just fine.

    I can agree with much of what was said here regarding supposed misgivings or limitations of the AR. I don't see it. Not a ton of rounds through it yet as ammo has only recently started coming down in price but haven't had any issues with it and is quite accurate. It is used for general shooting and HD. I'll keep it as is except for one day I'm sure I'll put a red dot on it. I don't even keep the sling on it although I'm sure I'll put it on and train with it one of these days.

    Before that, and I still have it and like it too is an SKS. It is outfitted with a carbon fiber stock and it is rather accurate. I've shot a crap load of Wolf through it over the years and I seem to recall only one stovepipe with it.

    I believe that while the "hole" going in may be smaller, the extra 1000 fps of the 5.56 over the 7.62x39 will nicely damage whatever it hits. I believe the numbers are something like 2250 fps for the 7.62 and 3250 fps for the 5.56 give to take a few here and there.

    I don't believe that in a HD situation (that I hope never happens), I will have any misgivings about grabbing the Colt. If the wife is around I can hand it off to her and I'll take the SKS. She shoots well too.

    I know what I have each of my guns for. While some were inherited, those that I purchased had a definite reason for doing so. I'm not interested in "looking" like something I'm not. My range is outside my house and while others do come over to make use of it, there is no showing off. We enjoy the time and the swapping around to get used to something you don't own.

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    I am a civilian. I show up to class as such (as both an instructor and as a student). It is very common to see me pull mags from a pocket.

    Train as you carry. Do you walk around everyday with a plate carrier? If not, why use one in training?


    C4
    Dude! I wanted to say this, but felt it might be inferior with this crowd of pros. I am so glad you said it! Now we are off the hook. I too will be carrying mags in pockets. This is why I like the cargo pants.

  5. #75
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    First off I'm not some high speed mall ninja,or a real spooky,just a guy who uses his rifle as a day-to-day utility rifle-hell I haven't even been to any classes other then the one I had to take for my carry permit.

    As such my gun is pretty much a jack of trades kind of thing,and I HATE hanging a metric crap ton of stuff off of it "just because" that's what the big boys do......all I can ask is are you actually going to use all of that sport? if not go find out what works/what you need and get back to me.

    Right now where I'm stuck is optics,I have a fair decent RDS for a start but want better just not sure WHAT I want...may decide on a low powered optic like the Leupold prismatic or such,and I need good mags have one Pmag and a few Tapcos,need to stock on Pmags most I think

    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    I am a civilian. I show up to class as such (as both an instructor and as a student). It is very common to see me pull mags from a pocket.

    Train as you carry. Do you walk around everyday with a plate carrier? If not, why use one in training?


    C4
    I've been known to stick a mag in each back pocket so I get you,I grab an ammo pouch if I know all hell is about to cut loose but if I just hear a bump and want to go see if another possum is in the trash I just grab a couple mags and stick'em in my pockets and go,the M9 is with my all the time,very rare I don't have a handgun on me.
    "That which is dead can eternal lie,and with strange aeons even death may die"~Lovecraft

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by tog View Post
    Dude! I wanted to say this, but felt it might be inferior with this crowd of pros. I am so glad you said it! Now we are off the hook. I too will be carrying mags in pockets. This is why I like the cargo pants.
    LOL, I just went through Vickers HD level 2 and LE/MIL CQB school with no mag pouch (used my pockets).

    I am what I am.


    Honestly speaking, if the instructor requires a mag pouch, take one. If not, rock your normal CCW setup.



    C4
    Last edited by C4IGrant; 08-26-13 at 22:02.

  7. #77
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    Excellent Thread! Surely AR-15 cleaning technology has changed since I took my 1981 Safe Hunter class. '"And don't use an AR-15, because they jam a lot"'-my WV DNR instructor.

    If it[s] junk, it will jam. My MISR-90 was a total nightmare until I traded it for an SKS, which I still have. My WASR-10 is hyper-reliable, but I want an AR, too. Why? I see it as an adjunct to my AK. Think of using it as a patrol rifle, like an M1 carbine/Mini-14: light, lots of firepower.

    I guarded a rape victim with my WASR-10. That solidified a friendship with her family. But I want an AR, because even Wal-Mart has started stocking some stuff for them. Also, mag prices are cheaper than most other home defense, too.

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krull View Post
    First off I'm not some high speed mall ninja,or a real spooky,just a guy who uses his rifle as a day-to-day utility rifle-hell I haven't even been to any classes other then the one I had to take for my carry permit.

    As such my gun is pretty much a jack of trades kind of thing,and I HATE hanging a metric crap ton of stuff off of it "just because" that's what the big boys do......all I can ask is are you actually going to use all of that sport? if not go find out what works/what you need and get back to me.

    Right now where I'm stuck is optics,I have a fair decent RDS for a start but want better just not sure WHAT I want...may decide on a low powered optic like the Leupold prismatic or such,and I need good mags have one Pmag and a few Tapcos,need to stock on Pmags most I think



    I've been known to stick a mag in each back pocket so I get you,I grab an ammo pouch if I know all hell is about to cut loose but if I just hear a bump and want to go see if another possum is in the trash I just grab a couple mags and stick'em in my pockets and go,the M9 is with my all the time,very rare I don't have a handgun on me.
    What I advise students it to clearly ID their needs (not wants). So if your AR is going to be used in a HD or Property defense roll take a close look at products that give YOU an advantage. They would be:

    1. RDS. The Aimpoint PRO is the king of the "best deal" for the money.
    2. Weapon mounted white light. The X300 or X300U (mounted at the 12 position) would be my first choice.

    Above all else, training is key! Learn what you don't know (as your life just might depend on it).



    C4
    Last edited by C4IGrant; 08-26-13 at 21:58.

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    What I advise students it to clearly ID their needs (not wants). So if your AR is going to be used in a HD or Property defense roll take a close look at products that give YOU an advantage. They would be:

    1. RDS. The Aimpoint PRO is the king of the "best deal" for the money.
    2. Weapon mounted white light. The X300 or X300U (mounted at the 12 position) would be my first choice.

    Above all else, training is key! Learn what you don't know (as your life just might depend on it).



    C4
    Yea I keep getting my stubborn arse steered back to the Aimpoint,I guess I should pick one up.
    I do find the Leupold prismatic interesting though;the circle and dot would be nice,I think,for a good short range day/night optic and if the battery dies I can still use it with the light.

    Right now I have a Surefire 6P clamped on it not fancy but not real bright ether,looking at a new LED for it that'll boost it to 170 or so lumen's,however I saw Wal-Mart has the new Surefire LED's that are 320 lumen's...and $89

    Thinking of getting a 7 inch railed HG and a fold down front sight gas block so I can use and take off things for different uses like a scope and bipod for when I want to harass coyotes..maybe a night scope somedays?

    No training now,can't afford it,but I do use my guns as much as I can and that's anything from killing raccoons in my pal's chicken coop to grabbing it when I hear a bump an' thump in the night.

    I think using a gun as a utility tool is good training since you get to know the gun well through real use.
    "That which is dead can eternal lie,and with strange aeons even death may die"~Lovecraft

  10. #80
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    I wrestled with this myself when I got the Sig from my son...what to do with it?

    I have 2 other AR's (S&W and Colt Hbar)...but I'll confess...I'm a little enamored with piston AR's....I'm not saying they're better, we all know they ain't...but I'm not sure they're any worse either...except for the fact that there is no standard set.

    I've wanted an AR set up for HD for a while, but was reluctant to do it with the S&W because it was missing some things that I think are important (4150 CMV barrel, 1-7 twist)...and the Hbar, well...you should know the answer to that.

    I got the Sig at a good price ($1,000) and knew the gun ran fine and is accurate...it had the 4150 CMV barrel, cold hammer forged even, and 1-7 twist...so I'm in the process of getting it all set up for HD...I've spent a pretty good chunk of change on it too and I'm not done yet.

    My main reasoning behind going with the piston rig? I don't expect to be in full on combat, and if I ever am in full on combat...I believe it will last at least as long as I do...and if the good Lord smiles on me that day and I win that fight, there should be at least a couple of DI rifles laying around afterward...then I might rethink my position.

    The Sig so far...I've got an Aimpoint M4s, a good supply of 20-30 round Pmags, and ammo (mostly M193, but slowly acquiring some heavy OTM stuff)

    I still need a light...undecided, but the budget is $300.
    Still need BUIS...again, undecided...but I'll spend the money for good sights.

    Training...I'd give my left nut to be able to get some legitimate training, its not so much the $$$...but due to my job I just don't know how I'd find the time.

    All the "training" I've had is life and that has given me the mindset...but I know thats not really enough.

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