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Thread: M16/M4/AR15 VS Other. Are we making rational decisions?

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Funny post. How do you sleep? Naked? In BDU's with a last resort belt? Sorry, but no time to put anything on (as you will be getting your gun and acquiring your bearings).

    Don't worry about lint or change damaging your mags. Worry about 10,000 other things that can realistically go wrong.


    C4
    Wait, shouldn't we be practicing carrying our spare mags in the waistband of our underwear then if we are practicing for HD? This is actually the one thing that makes me consider getting some sort of chest rig. Jump out of bed next to naked, no pockets, I might have time to throw on a loose chest rig and have something with a spare mag, flashlight and phone and a way to carry them hands free. Or maybe a get a redi-mag and call it good.

  2. #102
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    I'm still new to shooting and the AR platform, have owned a DD M4V5 for about two years now. When I first started the search for my rifle, I knew I wanted something factory built as it would be my first one, and I could break it down to see how everything goes together. My mistake was just as C4 described, I really didn't know what the real purpose of my rifle was. As an everyday civvy, I'm not needing to strap on tons of gear and my rifle doesn't need a ton of stuff on it either, but I somehow convinced myself I needed all the rifle bling, so I bought the rifle with the quad rail, various color rail panels lights, multiple optics etc, and at the end of the day as I started to shoot more, I ended up stripping it off as I realize most of what I added wasn't really functional for me. In the end I'm glad I made a quality purchase in the DD, and have since picked up a Noveske with a 14.5in Barrel and a NSR to use as my go to simply based on weight. Now that I have the rifle and the ammo, next is training classes. I've stocked up on maintenance parts for the rifles so I know I can emp them running or a while

  3. #103
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    When I had my Spike's midlength, I felt like the Steamlight TLR-1 was an awesome addition to my MOE handguard... Fast forward a few years, and I felt really weird about having a Fenix flashlight on my rail of the KAC SR-15. Hence one of the reasons I upgraded to a Surefire Scout Light and Gear Sector mount... not out of necessity, or having it fail when I was at the bench rest of my local public range haha, just because I felt like having a top tier rifle deserved saving up for a few paychecks to upgrade.

    A lot of people buy shit they don't need... I think I can come up with about a grand worth of spending in the last two months that I absolutely did not "need"... pocket knives, lights, more ammo and accessories, etc etc... but we do what we love, everyone has hobbies. I'd say with the right encouragement, experience and plain ol' time, those guys buying ATI accessories for their CMMG's will either fizzle out and sell it for child support payments, or upgrade once they've figured out what their needs are

  4. #104
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    I deal with the same thing with drummers I meet or sell to that are just hobbiest. They have more drums, cymbals and percussion accessories on there drum set than they need. When or,if they get good enough to join a band and start playing out in local clubs they soon find out they only need about 1/4 of the stuff.

    It's human nature and part of the attraction to AR's is all the accessories for them. The manufactures wouldn't make this stuff if people didn't buy.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travelingchild View Post
    That would definitely NOT be me!I showed up at my 4th carbine class, my gear was 2 pistol mag/mag pouches,pistol, carbine with 1x4 iluminated scope, 1 fastmag ar15 pouch to wear, 2 required extra ar15 mags stuffed in cargo pockets.

    I felt seriously underdressed...
    I wear a plate carrier with plates to classes, but its more out of fear of some idiot shooting me....you know Murphy and all that, especially after the Puzikas incident...I don't go overboard though, just a low profile carrier with plates.
    Last edited by sinlessorrow; 08-27-13 at 08:57.
    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Colt builds War Horses, not show ponies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    This is 2012. The world is going to end this December and people are still trying to debate the merits of piece of shit, cost cutting crap AR's. Really?

  6. #106
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    I suppose that it is natural -- and good -- that we all strive to invest in the best equipment that we can afford, be it a rifle, vest or optic. There is an inherent wisdom to doing this, provided we actually have some idea what we are talking about (i.e. we did our market research) and we have some rational basis for the selections that we make (i.e. we've actually considered our environment).

    For example, one needn't know anything at all about the AR-15 to make an excellent purchase decision with an SR-15. Larry Vickers says to get an Aimpoint, so we wisely heed his counsel and ante-up for an Aimpoint, whether we've ever used one before or not. Similarly, one can precisely replicate a favorite trainer's gear setup and purchase a very fine utility rig. What we end up with is a superb rifle, properly-configured with a terrific RDS and supported by a near-optimal equipment loadout ...

    ... none of which we really have any idea how to employ effectively. At all.

    It is here where the familiar strains of the "get some training" chorus can be heard, but there is a point to all of this. The training environment differs sufficiently from the static range environment as to rapidly reveal those things that work, and those that do not -- and some of the things that work well for others won't work well for you. You may have the right sling and mounts, but discover that you really need to turn one of your QD mounts around, or move it forward. You might learn that you really prefer a different model of Aimpoint because of your eyes, or where/how you prefer to mount it. You might discover that your training rig is prone to fouling on everything, is hot and uncomfortable, doesn't really place things where you intuitively want to find them and weighs far too much for the benefit it provides.

    Again -- all of the right stuff. But maybe not all of the right stuff for you. Go spend a few minutes in the EE section, and you will find that all of this is a journey, rather than a destination. Still, once you get past the "what kind of underwear is Costa buying?" phase, and spend a few days out on the line, firing drills and working through your gear, you will gain the ability not only to buy good quality kit, but to buy the right kit for your particular needs.

    I ran my full military loadout forever, because I figured that is what I would most likely use if I were ever shot down -- train as you fight, right? 10 minutes after I first tried out a training belt, I wondered why I had ever even bothered with the rest of that stuff, because my issued gear was so hot, heavy and uncomfortable that the first thing I would probably do in an E&E situation would be to shuck most of it off and get moving. Turns out, a silly "training belt" would actually be ideal in that situation.

    Buy the right stuff. Set it up properly. Then take some training, and be prepared to discover that there may be righter stuff or an even better way to set it up for your own needs. The difference between truly knowing what you are talking about and merely expressing an opinion on these matters is a long trail of often uncomfortable (and sometimes expensive) mistakes. Dare to make a few of them under a quality instructor and learn what really makes sense. Not for Costa. Not for the guy shooting next to you. For yourself.

    That is how you round the corner to competence.

    AC
    Stand your ground; don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here. -- Captain John Parker, Lexington, 1775.

  7. #107
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    This thread could have ended after Sinister's comment.

    The overwhelming majority of folks here (myself included) are definitely engaged in "make-believe" when it comes to the concept of tactically employing an AR in a deadly force episode. It's funny to see the now "anti-Timmy" trend (no multicam/no armor/no extraneous "stuff" on the rifle/etc.) on here. Who cares how others decide to dress or train? Nearly every thread here is about gear.

    I don't own a PC but intend on getting one because my "make-believe" involves a civil unrest situation. That doesn't change the fact that the likelihood of my being engaged in a violent encounter with a rifle is practically nil.

    Shooting is fun and good self defense skills are always valuable to learn and refine. I just don't get the general anti-Timmy attitude--if you're a non mil/non leo, training to use a rifle defensively, you might be a little bit Timmy. Get over yourself.
    Last edited by jc000; 08-27-13 at 08:57.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by uffdaphil View Post
    Grant said, "One of the things I constantly see and deal with as a firearms dealer is people setting up AR's for what they do 10% of the time (totally ignoring the other 90%). I am not sure why people do this, but it is nearly impossible to set them straight and get them to think about the "BIG PICTURE."


    A point about priorities may be germane here. If you are relying one one do-it-all AR and expect 99% of the use will be for punching paper or yotes and figure between one and zero % actually using for defending your family, what then? Maybe I'm missing something, but it looks to me that you would be a miserable excuse for a father/husband if that one gun was not set up as best you could for the slimmest yet most expensive of possibilities. I'm not really disagreeing with the quoted statement, just reminding the one-gunner that you are on call to defend loved ones 100% of the time. Hence get that best possible yote popper as your second gun.

    It is kind of a given that a firearm is at the ready 100% of the time.

    What I am talking about is when someone sets a gun up for a 10% activity (like varmint shooting) and the other 90% is training/practicing with said weapon.



    C4

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwegga View Post
    Wait, shouldn't we be practicing carrying our spare mags in the waistband of our underwear then if we are practicing for HD? This is actually the one thing that makes me consider getting some sort of chest rig. Jump out of bed next to naked, no pockets, I might have time to throw on a loose chest rig and have something with a spare mag, flashlight and phone and a way to carry them hands free. Or maybe a get a redi-mag and call it good.
    You can certainly have that stuff available to you. I simply do not think you will have that much time.

    How well do you function from a dead sleep in the middle of the night? Most likely not all that well.

    Hackathorn teaches to stage mags through out the house. So you can be in any room and have a reload.

    If an AR is going to be your primary weapon, a spare mag attached to it is never a bad idea.


    C4

  10. #110
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    My BCM has plastic handguards. I have a rail, just haven't installed it. My AR is for HD, only, with training as an adjunct to the primary goal. I had ARs with everything attached and once I realized what my goal was I was able to more rationally decide what to use.

    Like everyone else I have seen the gamut in classes and on one hand wonder why the hell Bubba must dress in gear and cammies that would rival any Tier 1 dude, knowing on the other hand it's their money and they can buy whatever they want. Do I think it looks stupid? Sure, but who am I to say how they use their money. Grown men will spend $15,000 to play baseball or insert-fantasy-camp-here, and I know that a sizeable number of Bubba's do the same with regard to all of this.

    Edited to add: I do have an issue with any man, or woman, that spends money on this, or any activity, at the expense of their families or going into debt. That is just bad ju-ju.
    Last edited by chuckman; 08-27-13 at 09:18.

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