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Thread: M16/M4/AR15 VS Other. Are we making rational decisions?

  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnichols2 View Post

    I don't have a light on my gun, and probably never will. I carried one on my belt for 30 years in the Air Force, and 4 tours in Iraq as a civil service tech rep. That's how I'm used to using the light.

    By the way, in 4 Iraq tours I never saw a soldier with a light on his weapon.

    The vertical foregrips look comfortable, but I want to try one before I spend on it and the quad rail to support it. Maybe the Colt lacking a quad rail is why the soldiers don't mount lights.
    Haha, did they ever let you out of your room? Kidding when I say that....kinda. I don't know where you did your tours but tac lights and railed M4/16's have been standard issue for close to a decade. The only time you don't see railed weapons are for support personnel and even then, most of them are rocking it now.

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehun View Post
    What worries me the most is that the "majority" of gun owners do not seek out training...instead they go to shooting ranges to get "tips" from other non-educated shooters

    People bring there DPMS/Delton quality rifles deck it out with ALL magpul stuff they have no idea how it works than they put on a Barska scope or RDS and it does not zero etc...than they go out and buy a 600 dollar eotech to put on a DPMS/Delton crap...all because the dealer said it was MILSPEC

    Some of the firearms talk I have heard over the years both ranges and gunshops makes me just There is two gunshops now that I do not go to locally because they are absolute idiots
    Agree. It freaks me out. So much so that I ran FREE training classes at my local range every month for THREE YEARS trying to fix it!

    My fellow dealers are also to blame for a lot of mis-information about guns. They typically know very little about anything (especially AR's).


    C4

  3. #143
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    Irrelevant sidebar: why on earth would the guy in the swoopy "fine art america" photo be wearing his SF combat patch upside down? Or be wearing what looks like a 1st Aviation Brigade patch, for that matter.

    Probably a stock photo, rather than a downrange shot. Either way, I saw plenty of lights mounted in IZ.

    AC
    Stand your ground; don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here. -- Captain John Parker, Lexington, 1775.

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Agree. It freaks me out. So much so that I ran FREE training classes at my local range every month for THREE YEARS trying to fix it!


    C4

    Your a hard guy not to like...
    'Evil Minds That Plot Destruction'

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airhasz View Post
    Your a hard guy not to like...
    One would think, but there are many out there that do not.


    C4

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    I was helping AI a Hackathorn class this weekend and was listening to Ken talk AK's and the fact that they DO fail and break. This discussion coupled with some recent threads makes me wonder what the thought process is that people go through when making purchase decisions.

    One of the things I constantly see and deal with as a firearms dealer is people setting up AR's for what they do 10% of the time (totally ignoring the other 90%). I am not sure why people do this, but it is nearly impossible to set them straight and get them to think about the "BIG PICTURE."

    Example, guy wants an AR for HD, Training and Varmint shooting. The HD and Training part occupy the MAJORITY of the time spent with the gun, but yet wants a 20" HBAR in SS. He does not realize that this AR will be VERY heavy and long and he won't like holding it all day in a 9 hour carbine class.

    This leads me to the next problem. The PERCEIVED limitations of one type of gun will make people buy or use one gun over another. Case in point, buyer is concerned about the AR15 being reliable when "dirty." So he purchases an AK/AUG/Piston AR/ETC as he believes that this is the more reliable gun. There is just one problem with this logic. An AR15 that is "dirty", but lubed properly WILL RUN for thousands and thousand of rounds.
    So the question is, what situation do people think they are going to be in that they are going to fire their AR for so many rounds that it quits running????

    Having spent lots of time talking to Active Duty Tier 1 and Tier 2 types, their common mag load out CAN BE 6 mags and NO pistol mag reload. Yet, we see Civy's at training classes carrying 12 mags on their chest rig.

    Point to all of this is do not let PERCEIVED limitations get in the way of rational thinking. Look at the WHOLE picture (accuracy, weight, cost, size, aftermarket parts, configurability, factory spare parts, magazine availability and cost, ammunition cost and armorer support) before making your choice for a defensive tool.




    C4
    I had a 20" Sabre Defense rifle with A2 sights (they don't take batteries, and they won't likely break. The 20" barrel allowed me to really reach out there. The FSC-556 compensator suppressed flash as well as muzzle-rise pretty darn well without being too "blasty".

    This was the perfect "oh shit" rifle, as I proved to myself time and time again by kneeling and firing 2-3MOA 5-shot groups at 100 yards with M855 (really, not bad with a USGI profile barrel and A2 sights and M855).

    Yep. This was THE configuration...until my budget increased. Then I ordered the same thing, except in A4. I was going to put an ACOG on it. The military used them to shoot Hadji at 800 yards, and the BDC would help me connect! (I have only been to Mexico, never outside of the US).

    I also bought a Surefire 3-cell combat light (MX7 something) and a KAC rail. Because that was good enough for the military. Good enough for me.


    __________________________________

    Times change, I matured (some), and now I have these:

    My primary use is plinking and home-defense, I take them in the car with me and one rides in the passenger seat sometimes (legal with CWP in the states I travel in). I have been to multiple carbine courses not with these, yet, but similar configurations, and they did me a solid. Even my RDS that will die in a decade without new batteries...even my 10.5 and 16.1" barrels that don't give me near that range. They somehow manage to do just what I ask of them, and probably would work well in my rich fantasy life as a bulletproof ninja, as well. I just built them up for the real world.

    Great post/topic/it took a lot of time and money to see it "your" way.


  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by WS6 View Post
    I had a 20" Sabre Defense rifle with A2 sights (they don't take batteries, and they won't likely break. The 20" barrel allowed me to really reach out there. The FSC-556 compensator suppressed flash as well as muzzle-rise pretty darn well without being too "blasty".

    This was the perfect "oh shit" rifle, as I proved to myself time and time again by kneeling and firing 2-3MOA 5-shot groups at 100 yards with M855 (really, not bad with a USGI profile barrel and A2 sights and M855).

    Yep. This was THE configuration...until my budget increased. Then I ordered the same thing, except in A4. I was going to put an ACOG on it. The military used them to shoot Hadji at 800 yards, and the BDC would help me connect! (I have only been to Mexico, never outside of the US).

    I also bought a Surefire 3-cell combat light (MX7 something) and a KAC rail. Because that was good enough for the military. Good enough for me.


    __________________________________

    Times change, I matured (some), and now I have these:

    My primary use is plinking and home-defense, I take them in the car with me and one rides in the passenger seat sometimes (legal with CWP in the states I travel in). I have been to multiple carbine courses not with these, yet, but similar configurations, and they did me a solid. Even my RDS that will die in a decade without new batteries...even my 10.5 and 16.1" barrels that don't give me near that range. They somehow manage to do just what I ask of them, and probably would work well in my rich fantasy life as a bulletproof ninja, as well. I just built them up for the real world.

    Great post/topic/it took a lot of time and money to see it "your" way.

    http://i43.tinypic.com/zvcy05.jpg

    Intelligent setups with quality components. You done well for yourself.


    C4

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryno12 View Post
    To me, "AR" is short for AR-15 & any of its variants.
    Similarly, "AK" is short for an AK-47 or any of its variants.

    "Assault Rifle" isn't in my vocabulary.

    Sent via Tapatalk

    https://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=7

    There is a standard terminology on this website, which is sort of important.
    We exchange info on here regarding technical and training matters with SMEs as well as each other, therefore using accurate universal terminology is key to understanding topics.

    I try to leave Bubba talk and other personal terminology off my posts as much as I can.
    "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Army Chief View Post
    Irrelevant sidebar: why on earth would the guy in the swoopy "fine art america" photo be wearing his SF combat patch upside down? Or be wearing what looks like a 1st Aviation Brigade patch, for that matter.

    Probably a stock photo, rather than a downrange shot. Either way, I saw plenty of lights mounted in IZ.

    AC
    he had the same setup guy that put the Eotech and Aimpoint on backwards in other photos.

    as for lights in use in Iraq, I don't know but the television series "Eyewitness War", being shot in Afghanistan, shows a light on every rifle...
    never push a wrench...

  10. #150
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    Re: M16/M4/AR15 VS Other. Are we making rational decisions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Atg336 View Post
    https://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=7

    There is a standard terminology on this website, which is sort of important.
    We exchange info on here regarding technical and training matters with SMEs as well as each other, therefore using accurate universal terminology is key to understanding topics.

    I try to leave Bubba talk and other personal terminology off my posts as much as I can.
    Last I checked, one of us (not including me) was confused & asked a question regarding terminology. I answered with "MY" 2 cents worth & capped it off with a little subtle humor.

    https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=122770

    BUT, if we were to follow our (again, not including me) ideology that "AR" does in fact always mean "Assault Rifles" then the "AR General Discussion" & "AR Technical" forums would already include all Assault Rifles and the forum for the link you posted would not need to exist.

    Not to mention the oodles of posts here where an AR-15 was simply referred to as an "AR" and very few, if any, IPs, SMEs & layman were confused to what the OP meant.

    Still confused??


    Sent via Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by JSantoro View Post
    Stop dicking the dog, please. It's gross.

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