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Thread: M16/M4/AR15 VS Other. Are we making rational decisions?

  1. #181
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    jnichols2,

    Please clarify your statements since you originally stated the following in April-My Air Force AFSC was 303x1, Air Traffic Control Radar Maintenance.

    As an Army Civilian I maintained the mobile Command & Control Centers. My last deployment was 2009-2010. I'm fully retired now.



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  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Army Chief View Post
    This is about eight kinds of confrontational, and an open invitation for a pissing contest. Please find another way to make your points -- even, or perhaps, especially, the more emphatic ones.

    Thanks,
    AC
    Roger, I edited my posts. This guy smacks of poser. His "experiences" don't match up with the Big Army I know.....or the Army anyone else here knows. Optics, lights, and rails have been standard issue for longer than I've been in the Army.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoutfsu99 View Post
    Hey Army Civil Service guy, just where did you learn to not use a weapon mounted light....unlike the rest of the Army? And just what the heck is Army Civil Service anyways?
    I would suspect a DAC/Department of the Army Civilian, just as it has always been. Some deploy. Some don't.

    Please see above for friendly guidance on making points without making enemies in the process. There is no need for the "in your face" approach here. More to the point, there is no tolerance for it.

    Play nice.

    AC
    Stand your ground; don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here. -- Captain John Parker, Lexington, 1775.

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoutfsu99 View Post
    Roger, I edited my posts. This guy smacks of poser. His "experiences" don't match up with the Big Army I know.....or the Army anyone else here knows. Optics, lights, and rails have been standard issue for longer than I've been in the Army.
    Tracking on all. Acknowledged, and thanks.

    Big Boy Rules, and all that.

    AC
    Stand your ground; don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here. -- Captain John Parker, Lexington, 1775.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoutfsu99 View Post
    Hey Army Civil Service guy, just where did you learn to not use a weapon mounted light....unlike the rest of the Army? And just what the heck is Army Civil Service anyways?
    DACs (Department of the Army Civilians). I commanded a bunch of them as IPs at Mother Rucker.
    For God and the soldier we adore, In time of danger, not before! The danger passed, and all things righted, God is forgotten and the soldier slighted." - Rudyard Kipling

  6. #186
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    I've just never heard them call themselves Army Civil Service.

    DA Civilians, yes. Army Civilians, yes. But understood on the ROE. I'll just chalk this up to ignore and move on.

  7. #187
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    It just makes things easier for all involved, and keeps threads from getting locked over pointless skirmishes. Not a crisis by any means.

    I suspect that more than a few of us were left to wonder by the same statements that you chose to challenge. I've been in since '84, and while I clearly remember a day when a crappy sling was as good as it got (M-16A1 era), over the past decade, I've seen a complete turnaround in small arms fielding and configuration options.

    Although there were, and likely still are, noteworthy variances from unit to unit, the overwhelming majority of Soldiers I saw wandering around in IZ had railed M4s, and more often than not, some kind of optic. Minimum. The closer you got to a true combat arms formation, the more likely that package would include a laser and light, as well. A bare bones M-16A2 pretty much meant rear echelon, a permanent TOC-dweller or a hapless reservist in a support unit of some sort -- and even that changed dramatically between, say 2003/4 and 2006/7. I doubt very seriously that anyone in AFG is humping around a stripped A2 tonight. Might be a few sitting in an arms rack someplace, but I dare say that nobody is out running patrols with them.

    Anyone who thinks that money hasn't been made available for these kinds of upgrades over the course of these two campaigns has likely been sitting in Kuwait or Qatar someplace eating ice cream sandwiches. I like ice cream sandwiches too, but my point is that, for the most part, the money for this kind of stuff has pretty much flowed like water. If you didn't have what was needed (or were told to remove something, for example), it was likely tied to a leadership issue closer to your own guidon than anything related to Big Army.

    AC
    Stand your ground; don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here. -- Captain John Parker, Lexington, 1775.

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    jnichols2,

    Please clarify your statements since you originally stated the following in April-My Air Force AFSC was 303x1, Air Traffic Control Radar Maintenance.
    That's a REALLY old AFSC. It's currently 3D1x5, formerly 2E0x1. It used to be 303x1 in the 80s...
    Last edited by Koshinn; 08-29-13 at 00:26.
    "I never learned from a man who agreed with me." Robert A. Heinlein

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Army Chief View Post
    It just makes things easier for all involved, and keeps threads from getting locked over pointless skirmishes. Not a crisis by any means.

    I suspect that more than a few of us were left to wonder by the same statements that you chose to challenge. I've been in since '84, and while I clearly remember a day when a crappy sling was as good as it got (M-16A1 era), over the past decade, I've seen a complete turnaround in small arms fielding and configuration options.

    Although there were, and likely still are, noteworthy variances from unit to unit, the overwhelming majority of Soldiers I saw wandering around in IZ had railed M4s, and more often than not, some kind of optic. Minimum. The closer you got to a true combat arms formation, the more likely that package would include a laser and light, as well. A bare bones M-16A2 pretty much meant rear echelon, a permanent TOC-dweller or a hapless reservist in a support unit of some sort -- and even that changed dramatically between, say 2003/4 and 2006/7. I doubt very seriously that anyone in AFG is humping around a stripped A2 tonight. Might be a few sitting in an arms rack someplace, but I dare say that nobody is out running patrols with them.

    Anyone who thinks that money hasn't been made available for these kinds of upgrades over the course of these two campaigns has likely been sitting in Kuwait or Qatar someplace eating ice cream sandwiches. I like ice cream sandwiches too, but my point is that, for the most part, the money for this kind of stuff has pretty much flowed like water. If you didn't have what was needed (or were told to remove something, for example), it was likely tied to a leadership issue closer to your own guidon than anything related to Big Army.

    AC
    I was eating ice cream (not sandwiches) in Kuwait and Bahrain and I still know that most folks were better equipped than is being alleged.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoutfsu99 View Post
    I've just never heard them call themselves Army Civil Service.

    DA Civilians, yes. Army Civilians, yes. But understood on the ROE. I'll just chalk this up to ignore and move on.
    Guess I'm not too popular here. We seem to have seen different things. Today's generation is a little hard with folks that had different experiences. Actually, that was an understatement. I was instantly attacked for saying I saw something different than you did.

    The very first reply to my first comment was "Haha, did they ever let you out of your room? ". Such tolerance!!!!

    The only reason for this reply is to answer a lot of questions you guys have asked.

    Civil Service: Works for the government, not a contractor.
    Army Civil Servant: Hired by the army. Same as DA Civilian.

    Sometimes it's hard to find a term to distinguish an army employee from a contractor. Contractors usually outnumber us, and a lot of soldiers see any civilian as a contractor.

    Am I a phony???
    1968 - 1996: Air Force, Air Traffic Control Radar Maintenance. Retired as Chief Master Sergeant (E-9).

    AFSC (MOS) 303x1, later changed to 2Exxx.

    2003 - 2010: Department of the Army Civilian. Stationed at Fort Hood, TX. Came under Tobyhanna Army Depot, PA.

    Four tours in Iraq with 1 CAV, 101st Airborne, and 4 ID.
    Maintained A2C2S System in Blackhawk and communications and networks in TOCs.
    Camp Freedom, Taji 2x, Camp Speicher.
    Traveled and lived with the soldiers. Carried no weapon, but was right there during rocket, mortar, and sniper attacks.

    I don't have a light on my weapon.

    If I ever need it, I won't be part of a large group storming a house. In that situation, a weapon light would be a good thing.

    But don't get wrapped around the axle. If I'm the guy whose house is getting stormed, I don't want to announce my position. I will need light and noise discipline. My light will be in my pocket when I need it.

    I would expect some to say "I disagree". But those that mounted a concerted attack are missing something in their upbringing.

    I am what I am, if you don't like that, then just ignore me.

    My opinion of this forum has greatly suffered.

    If this doesn't satisfy anybody, just deal with it.

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