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Thread: M16/M4/AR15 VS Other. Are we making rational decisions?

  1. #11
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    I don't care what guns and gear people use in class, or why they're there. As long as they are safe with it, don't consume more than their fair share of class resources (time, attention, etc), or slow down the class, have at it.
    2012 National Zumba Endurance Champion
    الدهون القاع الفتيات لك جعل العالم هزاز جولة الذهاب

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skintop911 View Post
    I don't care what guns and gear people use in class, or why they're there. As long as they are safe with it, don't consume more than their fair share of class resources (time, attention, etc), or slow down the class, have at it.
    This sums up how I feel about it.


    I think that PERCEPTIONS in many instances come from people who listen to war stories from people who don't know a lot about a particular subject. At least it is profitable for vendors.
    Train 2 Win

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skintop911 View Post
    I don't care what guns and gear people use in class, or why they're there. As long as they are safe with it, don't consume more than their fair share of class resources (time, attention, etc), or slow down the class, have at it.
    Agreed. Different people have different interests and needs. Tier one has to do with anything as they are a tiny fraction of the military working a very narrow and specific mission. Talk to the average infantry man about gear, then think about what they were carrying a decade ago for a load out.

    Classes are there to teach, and if a guy shows up with crap on his weapon, I've always thought (as an instructor) that it was a great way for them to learn why.
    Stick


    Board policy mandates I state that I shoot for BCM. I have also done work for 200 or so manufacturers within the firearm community. I am prior service, a full time LEO, firearm instructor, armorer, TL, martial arts instructor, and all around good guy.

    I also shoot and write for various publications. Let me know if you know cool secrets or have toys worthy of an article...


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  4. #14
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    deleted
    Last edited by TomMcC; 08-27-13 at 03:55. Reason: don't know

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skintop911 View Post
    I don't care what guns and gear people use in class, or why they're there. As long as they are safe with it, don't consume more than their fair share of class resources (time, attention, etc), or slow down the class, have at it.
    Oh make no mistake, I don't either. That isn't what this thread is about.

    People choose a firearm based off illogical perceived "shortcomings" with a gun.

    The main reason they state why they need a piston operated gun is because the AR is NOT reliable or CONSTANTLY needs cleaned.

    As you and I know, this is not true in the least.


    C4

  6. #16
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    Before I was on active duty, I heard some real B.S. about the reliability of some equipment and unreliability of other equipment. As the years passed, I learned that the sources of those expert opinions were not reliable. I think that the same type of sources are giving sage advice to people in the market to buy an AR or other rifle.

    I have only been behind the counter at the local gun shop a few days; that was about all I could stand. The B.S. about semi-automatic rifles was flowing from both sides of the counter.

    I did learn one thing though. A successful gun shop owner said "in the world of retail sales the customer is always right, even if they are not".
    Train 2 Win

  7. #17
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    What I don't understand is the constant need to tout the AR as the best rifle out there. We all know that it is a very good rifle, with a proven record and many well thought out features that serve to reaffirm it rightful place among the best rifles that have been made.

    That does not mean that there aren't other good rifles out there, with other features that the AR does not have, making them attract shooters for that reason.

    People are victims of their frame of reference, for both good and bad.

    I have handled and shot many types of weapons throughout the years, but there are only a few that I am actually proficient with and feel confident using. Of the weapons I have shot and handled, there were a few I really didn't like. Referencing the other thread, I shot a Steyr AUG a couple of weeks ago, and thought is was fun. That said, there were many, to me, flaws with the weapon (ergonomics, mag release, optics, trigger, weird recoil) that put me off on it. Any supposed benefit of the shorter OAL while still keeping a certain BBL did not make up for the perceived negatives.

    The gist of this, however, is that this was my experience. Nobody can tell me I'm wrong for thinking what I do. Well, they can, but it doesn't really matter. It all boils down to personal preference. Heck, I shot both a SCAR-L and a SCAR-H this summer, and thought the SCAR-L was too light; I really didn't like the way it handled at all compared to my HK146. That does not mean that the SCAR is a shitty gun, it means that my body has 5 years of HK416 handling ingrained in it.

    An "inferior" weapon in trained hands is more dangerous than a "superior" weapon in untrained hands.

    The AR platform has a lot going for it, compared to other designs. and based on my current frame of reference, that is the platform I would go with. A G3 would be a close second though (if only someone would make a lighter weight version, with better mounting solutions for accessories).

    For many, gun ownership, preference and training is a learning process. Not everybody is receptive to advice or perceived "short cuts" in getting to an "end-state" with regards to proficiency or quality. They want to experience the whole process themselves. For people with a higher degree of proficiency or more experience, that can sometimes seem a bit strange. It is what it is.
    It's not about surviving, it's about winning!

  8. #18
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    It's amazing how the Vietnam Era shortcomings of the M16 have persisted to this day. I still here people state that the AK is so much more reliable than the M16/M4/AR.
    ____________________________________
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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Watrdawg View Post
    It's amazing how the Vietnam Era shortcomings of the M16 have persisted to this day. I still here people state that the AK is so much more reliable than the M16/M4/AR.
    I haven't heard this from a Vietnam veteran in a very long time, about 3 hours.
    Train 2 Win

  10. #20
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    My Dad still believes this. He did 2 tours there. When I tell him I bought or put together a new AR his first words are why don't you get an AK?! They are much more reliable and will keep on firing no matter how dirty they get!
    ____________________________________
    Duck Tape can't fix stupid but it sure muffles the sound!

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