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Thread: M16/M4/AR15 VS Other. Are we making rational decisions?

  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnybravo View Post
    Sorry for the ruckass fellas. The mod wont reply to me so I just wanted to clear up it was not us equipment I took. Im not a thief. I loved my army and sorry if i was out of place here. I enjoy reading this forum and all the good info provided.
    Peace.
    Fair enough. Just kindly steer clear of this one until the smoke clears so we don't end up with any further drama.

    Thanks,
    AC
    Stand your ground; don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here. -- Captain John Parker, Lexington, 1775.

  2. #242
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    The mod (that would be me) did not reply to you, because you didn't put anything in your PM response. All you did was just quote me telling you to stop posting in this thread.

    Which you just did yet again, to insert your opinion for the eleventy billionth time in this thread.

    Dude, just stop.

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grand58742 View Post
    Hey, I wasn't trying to start a ruckus. Just educational. Probably were support types of some sort.
    Hey, I didn't mean to induce a severe case of butthurt either. If I never served a 20+ year career, you might have a point, but what you stated for anyone who has ever served a day on active duty, it is apparently obvious that all units, regardless of branch, are not equipped the same. Stop internalizing.
    For God and the soldier we adore, In time of danger, not before! The danger passed, and all things righted, God is forgotten and the soldier slighted." - Rudyard Kipling

  4. #244
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    Trying RE-Rail this thread....

    So, professional training or extended practice?

    Training classes, unless local, can put a pretty serious dent in your wallet. Course fees, lodging, food, mileage, rental car, plane tickets, etc. can all add up pretty quickly.

    Buying something akin to the magpul DVDs, 1k rounds, and videotaping yourself to try and find flaws in your execution, and using a smart phone app to help with par times and what not. It can be a lot less expensive.

    Given those two scenarios (please don't what-if them too much), who would feel ok with that?

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBelly View Post
    Trying RE-Rail this thread....

    So, professional training or extended practice?

    Training classes, unless local, can put a pretty serious dent in your wallet. Course fees, lodging, food, mileage, rental car, plane tickets, etc. can all add up pretty quickly.

    Buying something akin to the magpul DVDs, 1k rounds, and videotaping yourself to try and find flaws in your execution, and using a smart phone app to help with par times and what not. It can be a lot less expensive.

    Given those two scenarios (please don't what-if them too much), who would feel ok with that?
    If money's an issue, one is better off joining a regional training group of M4C members, or start one yourself, and have that knowledge base passed on to you. There are numerous members in TX for you to link up with.
    For God and the soldier we adore, In time of danger, not before! The danger passed, and all things righted, God is forgotten and the soldier slighted." - Rudyard Kipling

  6. #246
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    I do see value in watching DVDs and such, but I don't find them to be particularly effective training tools on their own -- even when coupled with self-initiated drills.

    There is something about external instruction (and an on-site instructor/cadre) that allow faults to be identified and corrected more positively than you could ever hope to accomplish on your own. The stress of having to perform unfamiliar drills to someone else's standards and timelines really ramps up the learning curve, as well.

    Now, after you have a few training courses under your belt, can you go back and use those DVDs to devise a more effective training plan, based upon your existing base of knowledge? I think that is more realistic thinking, yes. It will still be more "controlled" in scope, and likely only complicated by whatever time and accuracy bars you set for yourself, but at least you're doing things in a more purposed manner.

    The problem with trying to do this without a formal training foundation is that you simply don't know what you don't know. Stuff you think you may be doing right may actually be all wrong -- and holding you back in other areas, as well. Few of us are really surrounded by local peers or shooting partners with the knowledge and competence to serve as effective enablers of worthwhile training.

    I've wasted a lot of rounds trying to take personal range sessions seriously. Always fun, but not always effective.

    I've yet to waste one round at an instructor-driven training course. Not always fun, but always effective.

    Both have their place, but if you have to choose, make the investment in a course first, and watch the flat-screen stuff later. It will make more sense in the end.

    AC
    Stand your ground; don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here. -- Captain John Parker, Lexington, 1775.

  7. #247
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    There are a bunch of real good folks, who are very nice in Central Texas. The M4C member named Ironman8 comes to mind. Solid fellow, very nice, and he's also helped set up some local training sessions.

    TheBelly - I know you personally may not be looking for a training crew, just offering it as an option for folks you might know, who might be in need.

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by RogerinTPA View Post
    If money's an issue, one is better off joining a regional training group of M4C members, or start one yourself, and have that knowledge base passed on to you. There are numerous members in TX for you to link up with.
    Moneys not going to be an issue for me, but the time apart from work to get to a course. It's easy to get away on a Saturday, but a three or four day (that's what it will end up being for a decent two day course) away will be harder to plan and coordinate for.

    These are the thoughts that I think will help someone to make that decision for themselves.

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeriousStudent View Post
    There are a bunch of real good folks, who are very nice in Central Texas. The M4C member named Ironman8 comes to mind. Solid fellow, very nice, and he's also helped set up some local training sessions.

    TheBelly - I know you personally may not be looking for a training crew, just offering it as an option for folks you might know, who might be in need.
    I'm in a bit of both ends. I'm half way looking for something maybe in the November December timeframe, and there's a lot that goes into the whole thing.

    The other side, I think this thread could use a swift kick back into something fairly useful. It was pretty useful, until it quickly wasn't.

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Army Chief View Post
    I do see value in watching DVDs and such, but I don't find them to be particularly effective training tools on their own -- even when coupled with self-initiated drills.

    There is something about external instruction (and an on-site instructor/cadre) that allow faults to be identified and corrected more positively than you could ever hope to accomplish on your own. The stress of having to perform unfamiliar drills to someone else's standards and timelines really ramps up the learning curve, as well.

    Now, after you have a few training courses under your belt, can you go back and use those DVDs to devise a more effective training plan, based upon your existing base of knowledge? I think that is more realistic thinking, yes. It will still be more "controlled" in scope, and likely only complicated by whatever time and accuracy bars you set for yourself, but at least you're doing things in a more purposed manner.

    The problem with trying to do this without a formal training foundation is that you simply don't know what you don't know. Stuff you think you may be doing right may actually be all wrong -- and holding you back in other areas, as well. Few of us are really surrounded by local peers or shooting partners with the knowledge and competence to serve as effective enablers of worthwhile training.

    I've wasted a lot of rounds trying to take personal range sessions seriously. Always fun, but not always effective.

    I've yet to waste one round at an instructor-driven training course. Not always fun, but always effective.

    Both have their place, but if you have to choose, make the investment in a course first, and watch the flat-screen stuff later. It will make more sense in the end.

    AC

    This is really good advice. I've taken exactly one course, and it was a precision semi-auto rifle course. If I need to get into that stuff for home defense, I need to move into a better neighborhood. However, my neighbor across the street had her door kicked in at 1130AM the other day. Kinda got my head into the 'right' mindset for taking it seriously.

    Doing the 1-5 drills with both rifle and pistol at living room distances at the range yesterday made me realize that I need to get back into taking the shorter stuff more seriously.

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