Page 29 of 31 FirstFirst ... 192728293031 LastLast
Results 281 to 290 of 301

Thread: M16/M4/AR15 VS Other. Are we making rational decisions?

  1. #281
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    5,795
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Atg336 View Post
    Totally agree.

    Our unit got a quick one day class in Kuwait (we had some time to kill before our plane flight back stateside was approved) by former SOF on unit scale movement and drills, as well as additional instruction on CQB, how to make yourself and your gear cooperate while moving in tight spaces, night engagements (trained at night), and ammo ballistics.
    Pretty eye opening training we should have gotten a year before that, as we drove into Iraq under equipped, undertrained, with beat up Hummers and 5 tons.
    Based on some of this instruction 10 years ago, I still have the proper mindset and a very good idea of what I would require of my abilities in a plethora of situations. (Of course that's not to say that I'm not planning on some more classes in the near future.)
    Quality training will always leave you more humble and confident of your ability to adapt and overcome a shitty situation.
    Like many have stated, for many vets, you have a false since of bravado that's hard to overcome when you get out. Once a person becomes open to other, often better alternatives to what we once thought of as having alleged 'superior fighting skills', it frees your mind to consider and accept better alternative training. Then that training resets your brain function and humbles you considerably. Of course stay away from the bubba type training folks who have zero training credentials with dangerous tendencies and questionable methods. The probability of getting shot in one of those classes are higher than the actual training value provided.
    For God and the soldier we adore, In time of danger, not before! The danger passed, and all things righted, God is forgotten and the soldier slighted." - Rudyard Kipling

  2. #282
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    6,611
    Feedback Score
    11 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Abraham View Post
    How long is a first time AR course on average? 4/8 hrs or ...?
    My first course was VTAC Carbine 1.5. It was 3 days, about 8-10 hours each day.
    How much will the average course cost - ball park?
    It cost between $550-750. I forgot, because the ammo, transportation, and time off from work far overshadowed it. IT was almost incidental.
    Besides, the obvious, (rifle) what additional gear is generally required?
    I brought: Electronic ear-pro Tac 6S Peltor, TYR belt, 3 5.56 mag pouches, 2 9mm mag pouches, 4 magazines is a minimum 10-15 is optimal, Rudy Project shooting glasses. A friend loaned me a G19 and holster and several mags. For attire: Long pants, knee pads, a hat, and Mechanix gloves.
    I left home: What I thought I knew. My ego.

    How many rounds are likely needed?
    We went through about 500 9mm and 1700 5.56 in 3 days.
    If one is damaged to a certain degree, like my semi-bad back, is taking such a course going to be too much, cuz I can't run anymore either.
    A quality instructor will work with you. They aren't there to vette your fitness level or make fun of disabilities. They are going to run you as hard as you are willing to run, and they are very constructive and helpful in providing ideas for "work arounds" if you cannot do something.
    I am, strangely, in shape as I cycle long distance and work out with light weights with high reps and have been doing so for years.

    I'm also a geezer...

    Thanks!
    Sign up for a quality course. You will NOT be dissapointed.
    Last edited by WS6; 08-30-13 at 19:08.

  3. #283
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Tulsa, Ok
    Posts
    75
    Feedback Score
    0
    I have a Romanian AK and it shoots straight as an arrow and is just a great gun. I also love shooting ARs they are fun too. I don't have any biased. I am hoping to get a milled arsenal soon though.
    The sword sang on the barren heath,
    The sickle in the fruitful field:
    The sword he sang a song of death,
    But could not make the sickle yield.

  4. #284
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    521
    Feedback Score
    17 (100%)
    This is starting to read like an AA meeting...

    "My name is Dan. I'm addicted to ar's and I'm a crappy shot. Please help me!"


    And for those of you that take this as a shot... Lighten up! It's meant to be funny (although its probably lame because I started my Labor Day weekend drinking early...)

    But I am serious that I'm a crappy shot... But hopefully I won't be after the two courses I'm taking over the next few months!

  5. #285
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    8,421
    Feedback Score
    3 (100%)
    "Hello, I am MistWolf and I have an AR. What problem?"
    INSIDE PLAN OF BOX
    1. ROAD-RUNNER LIFTS GLASS OF WATER- PULLING UP MATCH
    2. MATCH SCRATCHES ON MATCH-BOX
    3. MATCH LIGHTS FUSE TO TNT
    4. BOOM!
    5. HA-HA!!

    -WILE E. COYOTE, AUTHOR OF "EVERYTHING I NEEDED TO KNOW IN LIFE, I LEARNED FROM GOLDBERG & MURPHY"

    http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_0114.jpg
    I am American

  6. #286
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    1,476
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by RogerinTPA View Post
    Absolute truth.



    Agreed. It's when a vet first attends a training firearms course by a highly accredited SOF instructor, that the epiphany occurs... that the military did not adequately prepare them to operate and effectively survive in a combat environment.
    Ok. I'll try to word this carefully as to avoid any confusion to what I am saying.

    I will preface this with saying that GPF probably have a ways to go, when it comes to using updated techniques, and that "Big Army" is a bit behind the curve in this area.

    Here is a vid made by a Norwegian Home Guard unit, clearly showing that they are not switched on to contemporary techniques:

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=407807095985513

    However, stating that GPF forces have not been adequately prepared for combat through their training is pretty exaggerated, in my opinion.

    Compared to who, exactly?

    A civilian whose only frame of reference is said course from said ex-SOF instructor?

    A SOF soldier, who has undergone a more rigorous selection, more rigorous training conducted by more experienced personell, serving in units with a totally different budgetary reality? For example, the Army SOF unit in Norway is allocated 2/3 of the entire Army ammunition budget every year. This is a unit with maybe 200-250 actual shooters, the rest are support personnell.

    And what is the mission profile we are looking at when claiming that GPF don't know enough to be successful in combat? Hostage Rescue? HVT kill or capture? Probably true. Combined arms assault against a prepared and dug in enemy? I think it will suffice. In the Big Army fight, it's not the shooters per se who win.

    I agree that one should seek to refine or change techniques if there are better out there, but we should be careful when making broad statements like the one made above. It is very easy to lose perspective. To compare GPF to SOF with regards to individual soldier skills is like comparing the driving skills of Joe the bus driver to Michael Schumacher.

    I know that the statement stems from frustration and a desire to improve things. I also understand about attitudes, but they are victims of their frame of reference. Why should they automatically discard what they have learned, or perhaps used successfully in combat, just because somebody says it on the internet? Show them a better way, teach them a better way. Don't berate them for not knowing.

    Hell, I used a magwell grip on my G3, and choked the chicken on my VFG when I first started using them. My techniques evolved as I continued to learn.

    In closing, I want to remind people that shooting, while an important skill, is only a small part of what makes a soldier a soldier.
    It's not about surviving, it's about winning!

  7. #287
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Fayetteville, NC
    Posts
    4,079
    Feedback Score
    15 (100%)
    Good post. As an aside, I am always left to wonder if you must be an expatriate, because your command of the language is absolutely phenomenal.

    AC
    Stand your ground; don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here. -- Captain John Parker, Lexington, 1775.

  8. #288
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    1,476
    Feedback Score
    0
    Thanks AC, appreciate it!
    It's not about surviving, it's about winning!

  9. #289
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Fayetteville, NC
    Posts
    4,079
    Feedback Score
    15 (100%)
    Must be something in the water up there. I get much the same sense when I listen to Jarle Bernhoft's lyrics and interviews.

    Anyway, back on topic.

    AC
    Stand your ground; don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here. -- Captain John Parker, Lexington, 1775.

  10. #290
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    1,193
    Feedback Score
    0
    Thanks all for the helpful advice regarding training courses.

Page 29 of 31 FirstFirst ... 192728293031 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •