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Thread: M16/M4/AR15 VS Other. Are we making rational decisions?

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koshinn View Post
    Considering who started the thread... how very passive aggressive of you.

    Where's my popcorn at?


    On topic, I definitely train for the 1%. My 1% is deploying with an M4 to some 3rd world country in SWA. My 90% is home defense and the last 9% or so is shooting for fun. My training is actually grossly disproportionate for the 1% since it's the time where I'll most likely need to actually employ the weapon in a life or death situation. But it makes up a tiny tiny tiny percentage of my actual use and handling of the AR platform.
    Hey I'm not a robot... the points i made seemed relevant to the thread... if a bit pointed.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by signkutter View Post
    Moe disgusted than butthurt . The least you could do is acknowledge my experience and background as I have yours. Instead you chose to go the route you did .
    Sure. As soon as you acknowledge that you were dead wrong on the fact that I sell piston operated weapons (which you never did even when I posted links). When you are wrong, man up and take your medicine!

    Then please tell me that you did not mount one scope ring on your rail and the other on your receiver of your AR!

    Working down the list, is the sling on your AUG the carry strap from the AUG case???


    Ugh.



    C4


    Last edited by C4IGrant; 08-26-13 at 17:16.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic1 View Post
    This is not meant as a dig towards you, but as a general observation, something that I often see with people's gear choice in the mil.

    While SOF are very good at what they do, and reach a higher level of proficiency than GPF, it is VERY important not to lose focus and start to emulate SOF without really grasping the context. Remember, SOF have Special in their name, and for a reason.

    While tailoring equipment to suit the mission is always important, SOF naturally have greater flexibility in this area due to the nature of their missions. So, something that is a good, and correct, solution for SOF does not neccessarily translate to GPF.

    I agree with you. You make a very good point.
    Train 2 Win

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    For me, I see enough negative comments about the M16/M4 family that I have to correct some of it. People worry about things that simply aren't going to happen.

    I own, like and sell all kinds of guns and would encourage people to buy as much as they like as often as they like. Just know WHY you are buying something and don't base it off of myths.



    C4
    I agree that there are plenty of myths out there that perpetuate the gun world, myths that exaggerate either a weakness or strength (.50 cal projectiles tear off arms with near misses, anyone?).

    And I agree that People should base their decisions on facts. However, some myths are hard to kill; they just won't die. It's like they have become so ingrained in people's minds no amount of fact will change it.

    Even today, after 12 years of shooting bad guys with 5.56 in Afghanistan, people in our military still cling on to the wound characterstic given to the 5.56 decades ago;

    "If you hit a guy in the leg, and the bullet strikes the femur, the bullet's axis of travel would change, and it would start to travel along the femur up into the pelvis, then the abdomen, the chest cavity and then exit from the shoulder."

    I mean, how hard are human bones!? Seriously, people still state this crap.

    I have done tons of instruction on how to treat GSW's, and I would always show terminal ballistic graphics, and show the students pictures of GSWs to illustrate how a wound can look. For some of the training, we would also shoot tissue to demonstrate. People still think that 5.56 pokes tiny holes, and that 7.62 vaporizes people....until I explain it of course, and they see it in real life.

    One thing I have learned is that delivery matters; patient mentoring is better than abrupt schooling. Especially with professionals who are starting to gain some confidence in their abilities and knowledge.
    It's not about surviving, it's about winning!

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic1 View Post
    I agree that there are plenty of myths out there that perpetuate the gun world, myths that exaggerate either a weakness or strength (.50 cal projectiles tear off arms with near misses, anyone?).

    And I agree that People should base their decisions on facts. However, some myths are hard to kill; they just won't die. It's like they have become so ingrained in people's minds no amount of fact will change it.

    Even today, after 12 years of shooting bad guys with 5.56 in Afghanistan, people in our military still cling on to the wound characterstic given to the 5.56 decades ago;

    "If you hit a guy in the leg, and the bullet strikes the femur, the bullet's axis of travel would change, and it would start to travel along the femur up into the pelvis, then the abdomen, the chest cavity and then exit from the shoulder."

    I mean, how hard are human bones!? Seriously, people still state this crap.

    I have done tons of instruction on how to treat GSW's, and I would always show terminal ballistic graphics, and show the students pictures of GSWs to illustrate how a wound can look. For some of the training, we would also shoot tissue to demonstrate. People still think that 5.56 pokes tiny holes, and that 7.62 vaporizes people....until I explain it of course, and they see it in real life.

    One thing I have learned is that delivery matters; patient mentoring is better than abrupt schooling. Especially with professionals who are starting to gain some confidence in their abilities and knowledge.

    Right on. Side track moment, what is your guys issued 5.56 ammo?



    C4

  6. #46
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    =C4IGrant;1730673]Sure. As soon as you acknowledge that you were dead wrong on the fact that I sell piston operated weapons (which you never did even when I posted links). When you are wrong, man up and take your medicine!
    You got it... but I was specifying the weapons used in the Army test
    ...but you do sell one.. The HK. So i was wrong. To top it off it was an example used in a hypothetical situation I was using to point out the condescending manner you were using to discredit my choice of weapon. But really it all makes more sense now.

    Then please tell me that you did not mount one scope ring on your rail and the other on your receiver of your AR!
    Ok. I didnt. Take a close look. Or have you already decided that it is? Its a one piece by the way

    Working down the list, is the sling on your AUG the carry strap from the AUG case???
    Ugh.
    I rarely use it being an HD/vehicle rifle... no humping and carrying. I figured it wasn't a pressing need. Is the strap really that big a deal for you?



    C4


    [/QUOTE]
    Last edited by signkutter; 08-26-13 at 17:32.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Right on. Side track moment, what is your guys issued 5.56 ammo?



    C4
    At the moment it is a lead free round made by Nammo, called NM255. It is actually pretty good, both accuracy-wise and wrt terminal ballistics. 62 grain projectile. Before that we had another type of lead free round, the NM229, but it was over pressured, tearing up guns as well as making guys sick due to high density of heavy metal particles in the air after shooting.

    I think our SOF guys used M855, until they switched to a heavier weight bullet version of our current ammo, I think 70 grain.
    It's not about surviving, it's about winning!

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by signkutter View Post
    You got it... but I was specifying the weapons used in the Army test
    ...but you do sell one.. The HK. So i was wrong.
    LOL Army test?? Which one? Big ARMY? Small Army? Which test? Last years? This years?? Gotta be more specific.




    Ok. I didnt. Take a close look. Or have you already decided that it is?
    If you say so, but it is one hell of an optical illusion.


    I rarely use it being an HD/vehicle rifle... no humping and carrying. I figured it wasn't a pressing need. Is the strap really that big a deal for you?
    It is questionable whether a long gun needs a sling for HD or vehicle work (agree). Most will rubber band one to the side so it is not in the way (if at all).

    Question though, when you ran your AUG through shoot house training, did you not have a sling on your gun or did you use the one in the pic?

    Its your gun, but I would NEVER let a gun (that I liked) be held up with a cheap ass, Chinese made hook that is just waiting to break.

    YMMV.




    C4

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic1 View Post
    At the moment it is a lead free round made by Nammo, called NM255. It is actually pretty good, both accuracy-wise and wrt terminal ballistics. 62 grain projectile. Before that we had another type of lead free round, the NM229, but it was over pressured, tearing up guns as well as making guys sick due to high density of heavy metal particles in the air after shooting.

    I think our SOF guys used M855, until they switched to a heavier weight bullet version of our current ammo, I think 70 grain.
    Interesting. Can you say what the bullet is made out of? Like copper, etc.???

    What was its accuracy rating at 100yds?

    C4

  10. #50
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    Re: M16/M4/AR15 VS Other. Are we making rational decisions?

    You guys do realize that the entire world can see this back 'n forth dialog & quite honestly, it's not that impressive... especially for two adult males.

    Sent via Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by JSantoro View Post
    Stop dicking the dog, please. It's gross.

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