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Thread: M16/M4/AR15 VS Other. Are we making rational decisions?

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    I am a civilian. I show up to class as such (as both an instructor and as a student). It is very common to see me pull mags from a pocket.

    Train as you carry. Do you walk around everyday with a plate carrier? If not, why use one in training?


    C4
    pocket carry? say it ain't so...!
    i'm too paranoid about lint, spare change, and even damage to feed lips and top bullet to do so.

    i do pocket carry, but using a pocket holster, and mag carrier in-pocket. did my last pistol class that way since it's actually the way i EDC.

    this would go double if i was toting AR mags (triple if they're USGI's) - no way i'm sitting my fat ass down on one in the pocket.

    and if i've got pistol mags in the pocket, where does the AR mag go? better to have a belt set up with the gear you need that mimics the way you'd actually carry.

    if we're going to go to the expense of LW barrels, et al. b/c we get all tuckered out during class, it's not too much of a leap to think we'd also go with low-pro, LW carriers for support gear.

    or, if we want to prep for active-shooter/home-invasion, we should train with some kinda go-bag. pocket carry isn't any better than flip-flops.

    as to PC's, have you been to a drills night or level 1 class lately? they should be handed out at the door...
    just b/c of that i'm probably going to get a slick PC. Perhaps a BFG PlateMinus to keep my options open.
    after all, if i'm ever actually in need of an AR, i'm probably in need of a PC, too.

  2. #82
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    I own different rifles for different reasons. Some of the reasons are for hunting, others are for plinking and having fun, others are for collecting, and lastly a very select few are for HD and work. My HD/ work rifles are all set uo in the same manner. RD optic, iron sights, sling, and a visible light. My primary work rifle is my Colt SBR and my primry HD rifle is my SBR PS90. I have a 16 inch carbine to teach folks on and also for the wife to plink with. I don't deck out my rifles with thirty pounds of crap like lasers, IR designators, tacticool bottle opners, etc... I stick to a core basic. Hell, I'm building a KISS Dissipator so my brother in law can have a rifle for HD. He lives in a shitty part of the state and has nothing but a .22 Ruger. Giving him a Kiss rifle, a GP bag to hold three spare mags and a first aid kit along with an extra flash light.

    Do I have armor, helmets, different load outs, etc? Yup, but its all work related. Even at work I don't go nuts with 12 mags. I usually carry four to six depending on what we're doing and six is RARE. Nine out of ten times its four plus my usual two spares for the pistol. I just usually see these tactical teddies out there on the range acting bad ass when they are printer repair men yet act like they are seals in the 'Stan. Hell, I'm not exactly high speed myself. I'm just a cop working for a state agency and on a tac team to serve warrants and do vip protection. Not a seal, green beret, ranger, etc... just a former grunt, a current cop, and a husband.

    Been to the range, been to classes, and seen the tactical teddies in their two thousand dollar multicam gimp suits with their armor, while shooting their new in the box low teir AR and simply punching paper and learning the basics while I simply go in comfy boots, jeans, tshirt, and maybe a belt with holster and mini mag rig. I'm not going to stop them from doing what they do but I will keep doing what I do.
    Last edited by Miami_JBT; 08-26-13 at 23:33. Reason: Spelling
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  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluejackets92fs View Post
    One of my friends has a cheap weapon light, no sling and a paintball tac vest, but his rifle is a Daniel Defense. Why spend good money on a good platform and then but shit accessories?
    wait a sec...so your friend spends money in the right place and saves in the areas it just don't matter and you still want to give him shit?

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmk View Post
    pocket carry? say it ain't so...!
    i'm too paranoid about lint, spare change, and even damage to feed lips and top bullet to do so.

    i do pocket carry, but using a pocket holster, and mag carrier in-pocket. did my last pistol class that way since it's actually the way i EDC.

    this would go double if i was toting AR mags (triple if they're USGI's) - no way i'm sitting my fat ass down on one in the pocket.

    and if i've got pistol mags in the pocket, where does the AR mag go? better to have a belt set up with the gear you need that mimics the way you'd actually carry.

    if we're going to go to the expense of LW barrels, et al. b/c we get all tuckered out during class, it's not too much of a leap to think we'd also go with low-pro, LW carriers for support gear.

    or, if we want to prep for active-shooter/home-invasion, we should train with some kinda go-bag. pocket carry isn't any better than flip-flops.

    as to PC's, have you been to a drills night or level 1 class lately? they should be handed out at the door...
    just b/c of that i'm probably going to get a slick PC. Perhaps a BFG PlateMinus to keep my options open.
    after all, if i'm ever actually in need of an AR, i'm probably in need of a PC, too.
    Funny post. How do you sleep? Naked? In BDU's with a last resort belt? Sorry, but no time to put anything on (as you will be getting your gun and acquiring your bearings).

    Don't worry about lint or change damaging your mags. Worry about 10,000 other things that can realistically go wrong.


    C4

  5. #85
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    Grant said, "One of the things I constantly see and deal with as a firearms dealer is people setting up AR's for what they do 10% of the time (totally ignoring the other 90%). I am not sure why people do this, but it is nearly impossible to set them straight and get them to think about the "BIG PICTURE."


    A point about priorities may be germane here. If you are relying one one do-it-all AR and expect 99% of the use will be for punching paper or yotes and figure between one and zero % actually using for defending your family, what then? Maybe I'm missing something, but it looks to me that you would be a miserable excuse for a father/husband if that one gun was not set up as best you could for the slimmest yet most expensive of possibilities. I'm not really disagreeing with the quoted statement, just reminding the one-gunner that you are on call to defend loved ones 100% of the time. Hence get that best possible yote popper as your second gun.
    The beasts of modernism have mutated into the beasts of postmodernism—relativism into nihilism, amorality into immorality, irrationality into insanity, sexual deviancy into polymorphous perversity. And since then, generations of intelligent students under the guidance of their enlightened professors have looked into the abyss, have contemplated those beasts, and have said, “How interesting, how exciting.”

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  6. #86
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    As far as gear goes I'm a fan of those "tactical" gear belts.

    I run a VTAC Brokos belt and I has everything I need, pistol, 2x pistol mags, a small dump pouch and 4x fast mag AR mag pouches.

    This way I just show up at a class, click on then belt and I'm ready to go. This saves me a lot of time and hassle compared to how I had to thread or snap on my holster and a bunch of mag pouches into a regular pants belt. Same for wrapping up the day.

  7. #87
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    I'll be the first to admit I came into this ass-backwards. I decided I was going to build my rifle. I got caught up in the "upgrade syndrome" right out of the gate. In other words, why buy a basic rifle when I know I'll only end up replacing a bunch of parts later? (I don't know how I know. I just do.) I think all too often it's too easy for newbs like myself to fall into this type of thinking. I mean, after all how could upgraded parts not be a good thing? I'm being tongue-in-cheek here but I think you get the point. Don't get me wrong, I ended up with what I feel is a really nice rifle, built with quality parts from highly regarded manufacturers, but I could have had an SR-15 for what I ended up spending. I've dropped all that cash and I've learned a little about the workings of the rifle (enough to get myself into trouble on occasion), but I haven't learned a single thing about how to use the rifle. I even spent several hundred more dollars putting together a nice padded MOLLE battle belt with no idea what I needed on it or if I even needed it in the first place.

    Now I've finally managed to open my eyes to the fact that I put the cart ahead of the horse. I took my first pistol class a couple of months ago and I'm going to my first rifle class next month. Even though I have the nice MOLLE belt I'm leaving it at the house and only taking what's recommended/required by the instructor and I'll go from there. I'm curious how I'll feel about my rifle setup after really running it for two days and I'm going to do my best to honestly evaluate the parts I bought for it and try to determine if I like it as is or if anything needs to be changed.

    When it comes to what I want vs. what I need, I'm just a lowly fireman who does not carry a gun for a living and I pray the day never comes when I actually need an AR-15. Ever. Even if I do some day find myself in a position where I truly need a firearm I'm far more likely to have to rely on a pistol rather than a rifle, as a pistol is the only gun I have handy most of the time. From that perspective I would surmise that pistol training is where my priority should be and most anything to do with the rifle is just a bonus.

    As far as training the way you carry, that's fine and dandy if we're talking about a pistol. Since I don't carry a rifle (ever) I'm not sure what that should look like exactly (for me). So I'm just going to strap the recommended mag pouches onto my EDC belt, head off to class next month and see what happens.
    Last edited by SteveL; 08-26-13 at 23:38.
    Steve

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Funny post. How do you sleep? Naked? In BDU's with a last resort belt? Sorry, but no time to put anything on (as you will be getting your gun and acquiring your bearings).

    Don't worry about lint or change damaging your mags. Worry about 10,000 other things that can realistically go wrong.


    C4
    right, chief - i will look funny with just my glock, flashlight and tighty-whiteys for sure.
    but i guess they should be tighty-blackies so i'm all low-vis...but then i worry about NIR compliance, too.

    right again - like mags falling out of your pockets. that you don't have on. in class.

    where were we...?

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by uffdaphil View Post
    Grant said, "One of the things I constantly see and deal with as a firearms dealer is people setting up AR's for what they do 10% of the time (totally ignoring the other 90%). I am not sure why people do this, but it is nearly impossible to set them straight and get them to think about the "BIG PICTURE."


    A point about priorities may be germane here. If you are relying one one do-it-all AR and expect 99% of the use will be for punching paper or yotes and figure between one and zero % actually using for defending your family, what then? Maybe I'm missing something, but it looks to me that you would be a miserable excuse for a father/husband if that one gun was not set up as best you could for the slimmest yet most expensive of possibilities. I'm not really disagreeing with the quoted statement, just reminding the one-gunner that you are on call to defend loved ones 100% of the time. Hence get that best possible yote popper as your second gun.
    If your gun can shoot a bullet can can point that gun at a human being and defend your home with it. If it works or not is far more dependent on what you are capable of doing than what kind if gun it is.

    Only you can figure out if it is acceptable to use a gun not ideally suited for HD. My only point is the gun itself is a small part (as long as it is functional) compared to the person using it. That is the true "big picture".

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmk View Post
    wait a sec...so your friend spends money in the right place and saves in the areas it just don't matter and you still want to give him shit?
    Since when did accessories "not matter"? When you are going to go to courses and start training to use your gear, and cheap out on pretty important components, yeah, I am going to voice my opinion. Who doesn't? That is like putting summer tires on a Jeep in Alaska. It's not like an Eagle chest rig is expensive, it's not like an Inforce WML is breaking the bank either, and a sling will set you back another $60. Spending $1500 on a DD rifle and then a combined $100 on accessories is idiotic to me. YMMV.
    Last edited by bluejackets92fs; 08-26-13 at 23:47.
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