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Thread: How reliable are Low Mass BCGs

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by theblackknight View Post
    Really, there is time before the match starts where people can burn ammo and "tune" ? This conversation is silly seeing as how easy it is to buy a gas block with the wrong sizing and how many member's in spec princess guns wont even run steel case ammo.

    Also, tell me more about the grueling condition inside your house compared to
    in which your serious use, combat fighter rifle thrives in?
    Are you being serious? Did I say that you had to do it 30 mins before the match starts?

    Im sure you went to the range a few days in advance and meticulously tweaked your gas setting with your carefully labeled handloaded ammo to get the softest shooting gun possible am I right?
    Last edited by vicious_cb; 08-31-13 at 06:30.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by why1504 View Post
    Lo mass carriers are used for three gun shooters. They are used with large compensators, low weight buffers and adjustable gas blocks. These components are all tuned to reduce muzzle travel for multiple shots on a single target.

    Most competitiors have defense guns and competition guns. Defense guns don't run well in competitions and competition guns are not good for defensive situation (except for their accuracy!). You can own a good defensive gun for around $1000. Competition rifles start at about $2500 unless you build it yourself.

    This is all the truth. Low mass carriers really are only good for competition. Reliability is taken away until everything above is fine tuned. Even then I would never trust my life to a JP Low mass Carrier..

    As great as JP is as a company.

  3. #43
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    C4IGrant runs a JP carrier in his SBR and it's been dead nuts reliable with the gas port, buffer & spring dialed in- both suppressed and unsupressed
    INSIDE PLAN OF BOX
    1. ROAD-RUNNER LIFTS GLASS OF WATER- PULLING UP MATCH
    2. MATCH SCRATCHES ON MATCH-BOX
    3. MATCH LIGHTS FUSE TO TNT
    4. BOOM!
    5. HA-HA!!

    -WILE E. COYOTE, AUTHOR OF "EVERYTHING I NEEDED TO KNOW IN LIFE, I LEARNED FROM GOLDBERG & MURPHY"

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  4. #44
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    dialing it in must have taken awhile.

    Sounds like a great setup he's got there.


    Nice thing about having JP Enterprises being a half hour away from my home in Roseville, MN is that you tend to spend more money than you should when you visit the location in person.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by vicious_cb View Post
    Are you being serious? I did I say that you had to do it 30 mins before the match starts?

    Im sure you went to the range a few days in advance and meticulously tweaked your gas setting with your carefully labeled handloaded ammo to get the softest shooting gun possible am I right?
    You seem to be confusing 3 gunners and varmint hunters or the Markm's of the world.

  6. #46
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    In their setting (a match with proper ammo) 3 gun firearms are as reliable as it gets. Combat rifles can be as reliable as the 3 gun rifle but often aren't. The two tools look the same and fire the same projectiles at similar velocities but after that they are vastly different weapons.

    Reliabile shotguns are responsible for most equipment related issues in 3 Gun.

    Glocks will run for a long time if you feed them a steady diet of FMJ's pushed with a clean powder. Load them with lead and W231 they will get more accurate, and real dirty real fast. You have to clean that pistol every 400-600 rounds minimum.

  7. #47
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    This is an interesting perspective.

    It makes sense in the fact that an unreliable 3G will loose you matches and hundreds of rounds can be fired per match.

    Many "defensive" rifles never get that much use in their lifetimes.

    However, some serious use rifles run thousands and thousands of rounds without issue.

    How do YOU set up your rifle for 3G to minimize sight picture disruption, yet ensure excellent reliability?

    Quote Originally Posted by why1504 View Post
    In their setting (a match with proper ammo) 3 gun firearms are as reliable as it gets. Combat rifles can be as reliable as the 3 gun rifle but often aren't.
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    C4IGrant runs a JP carrier in his SBR and it's been dead nuts reliable with the gas port, buffer & spring dialed in- both suppressed and unsupressed
    Maybe he can come in and give us his input.



    This is what zak smith wrote.

    December 17, 2011, 02:50 AM
    I've used lightweight bolt carriers and/or buffers since 2004. I generally shoot either commercial match ammo up to full-power mil-spec ammo, e.g. M193.

    The lightest of the systems, such as the original aluminum JP bolt carrier and lightweight buffer, can be very finicky for reliability. But it does have very little felt recoil and almost no sight picture movement. I prefer to use a regular carbine buffer and a lightened steel carrier such as the one from Young Mfg. This combination is as reliable as a regular setup but is faster shooting. No tuning. I always run full gas.

    Compared to the masses and spring rates specced stock, a slower system will mask magazine-related feed problems, which are the primary source of malfunctions.
    Last edited by ryu_sekai; 08-31-13 at 13:52.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    Let's clear up a few misconceptions.
    WHOLLY CRAP I hope I'm misunderstanding most of what you wrote. Answer me this:

    Test 1

    Rifle 1
    18" bull barrel, rifle gas, low mass bolt carrier, carbine buffer

    Rifle 2
    18" Pencil barrel, rifle gas, Auto carrier, H3 buffer

    Which one has more felt recoil?

    ***************
    Test 2
    Two IDENTICAL WEIGHT rifles, same barrel and gas, etc.

    Rifle 1
    Low mass BCG, carbine buffer

    Rifle 2
    Auto BCG, H3 buffer

    Which one has more felt recoil?

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clint View Post
    This is an interesting perspective.

    It makes sense in the fact that an unreliable 3G will loose you matches and hundreds of rounds can be fired per match.

    Many "defensive" rifles never get that much use in their lifetimes.

    However, some serious use rifles run thousands and thousands of rounds without issue.

    How do YOU set up your rifle for 3G to minimize sight picture disruption, yet ensure excellent reliability?
    Right now I am running an over gassed Battle rifle but have Benny Hill building me a 3 Gun AR. I only run M193 ammo. I don't have failures. Run steel cased stuff and you can have issues just like with any battle rifle. I have been running an Eotech but am moving to a Burris MTAC scope on the new rifle. Few shoot AK's or other rifles.

    With a comp gun you are looking for accuracy first. Mine will have a light 3 lb trigger. Next is the compensator on the barrel, then the barrel itself with a matching bolt. Other components are chosen for weight. CF Free Float rails, fixed stocks, etc. My new gun will weigh around 7 pounds.

    Balancing the gas system on a comp gun is very similar to how you do it on a suppressed battle gun. You cut the gas off fire a shot open it a 1/4 turn fire another shot. Continue this until the gun cycles then open the gas up a little more and lock it down.

    The ammo you plan to shoot is what you use here to set the the gas. 68-80 grain bullets considered the most accurate. Lots of guys shoot 193 like I have in the past. If I was going to a major match I would reload and tune the gun to the reload. You should check operation most anytime you chane ammo.

    In a club match you will generally shoot 80-100 rounds of rifle, 50-100 rounds or pistol and 20-40 rounds of shotgun. I do have a race shotgun that doesn't require cleaning after every match. I shoot a G34 or my G21 for my pistol. I expect the new AR to require cleaning every 300-500 rounds.

    Defensive guns you see fail in competitions are due to lack of lube, dirty gun from steel cased ammo, plain lack of maintnence, mags never having rounds loaded into them, and just untested guns which have had changes.

    My over gassed defensive gun has enough recoil to disrupt the sight picture. My new gun should never move off the target. Hope this answered your questions.

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