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Thread: New build Short stroking issue diagnose

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by polymorpheous View Post
    Make sure the BCG is well lubed.

    Put 1k of 5.56NATO pressure ammo through it.
    Then try the cheap range fodder.
    I bet you have better results.
    Yep. With a new firearm if I have it well lubed, use quality mags & ammo, I usually don't fret if I have a malf or 2 at first. Just the individual parts becoming familiar with each other. My last firearms purchase was a M&P 22 handgun that had problems going into battery. Ammo used was CCI Tactical. After about 350 rounds & some manual cycling it runs like a top now.

    My last AR build is a super soft shooter. A5 w/A5H3 buffer, green springco, middy 14.5 DD, & LMT enhanced carrier. It too at first wouldn't cycle PMC bronze 100%. After some break in time with M193/M855 it will cycle everything I load in the mag well. IMO this break in period is even more critical with a parts bin gun sometimes. I have no experience w/Monarch ammo but if my middy's will run bronze & Tula (& they do) without issue then I am a happy camper.

    Shoot some 5.56 through it for a while. Keep it lubed and see if the problem persists IF your gas rings, gas block, tube, & key are good.

    Your upper won't need a lighter buffer. I guarantee you it's got plenty of (read, too much) gas hitting that carrier key. Especially w/it being a 16" barrel.

    -Jax
    Last edited by jaxman7; 09-03-13 at 15:28.


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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xrob View Post
    I called Windham and found that the upper is NOT over gassed, it has the same diameter port as a 16" Colt, .063.

    You are putting out bad/in-correct info about Windham and probably BM. Not cool man.

    Windham is actually putting out very nice guns that are on Par or Better than the other high end AR rifles, they're QC is impressive, I have researched it plenty, go see for yourself.

    Also, if it was over gassed, that would help the short stroke issue.


    But I do appreciate your input.
    How many gas ports have you measured? Have you actually measured the one on your gun? The commercial grade manufacturers like Windham (who is Bushmaster all over again) are notorious for putting out bad info about their rifles, intentionally or otherwise.

    Not sure if you meant to type what you did in your last sentence, but yes, over-gassing would help the short stroke issue. Hence, my reasoning as to why you didn't have issues running the low pressured ammo in your Windham gun.

    Please quantify what you found in your research that lead you to make the bold/italic statement. I'll tell you on the front end that fit and finish don't count towards a properly-functioning AR.

    I'm not trying to pick on you or your weapon, but step back and take a look at the situation objectively:

    You own a Windham, therefore you are likely to defend it. You're already "invested" in your purchase emotionally.

    Those of us that have knowledge of such things and have been around AR's for awhile know the sort of games that these manufacturers play and can tell you the facts from experience as to why certain manufacturers are more highly regarded than others. It has nothing to do with the name. Another example of such mis-leading info from manufacturers in with regard to chamber spec. Bushmaster was notorious for marking their barrels "BMP 5.56" Guess what, the barrels were MPI'd @ a few per batch, not every barrel. Also, their chambers weren't 5.56 as revealed by a chamber reamer.

    So, I'd caution you against blindly believing what a manufacturer tells you on the telephone.
    Semper Paratus Certified AR15 Armorer

  3. #13
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    You have no idea what you are talking about. Second thing is that MILSPEC tubes and commercial tubes are the same length, its the diameter that is different. If you are saying the tube it is a 1/2 longer then it is wrong. In my Houston class one of the guys brought a new WW carbine to the class that had similar issues. We discovered they put an AR10 tube on the carbine. Coupled with a spring that was only 10.5" and light buffer its sounds almost like your current issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xrob View Post
    I called Windham and found that the upper is NOT over gassed, it has the same diameter port as a 16" Colt, .063.

    You are putting out bad/in-correct info about Windham and probably BM. Not cool man.

    Windham is actually putting out very nice guns that are on Par or Better than the other high end AR rifles, they're QC is impressive, I have researched it plenty, go see for yourself.

    Also, if it was over gassed, that would help the short stroke issue.


    But I do appreciate your input.



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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xrob View Post
    Drenched in lube for break in. CLP

    As what I mean about swapping tubes, with the commercial tube, springs and buffer weights being the same, the mil-spec is .5" shorter, so the spring is being compressed more, so it would take the higher pressure to push the BCG back far/long enough.

    So if I switch to a comm. tube, it will not take the high pressure of 556 to run.
    CLP is mediocre at everything it's designed to do in my experience.
    Last edited by foxtrotx1; 09-03-13 at 15:41.

  5. #15
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    Re: New build Short stroking issue diagnose

    Quote Originally Posted by Xrob View Post
    Drenched in lube for break in. CLP

    As what I mean about swapping tubes, with the commercial tube, springs and buffer weights being the same, the mil-spec is .5" shorter, so the spring is being compressed more, so it would take the higher pressure to push the BCG back far/long enough.

    So if I switch to a comm. tube, it will not take the high pressure of 556 to run.
    Commercial tubes are a different exterior diameter and material, but are not different in length and have no effect on the gas drive or cycle of operation as a stand alone part. The vltor A5 system is the only exception to this rule.

    ETA - IG beat me to it.
    Last edited by mtdawg169; 09-03-13 at 15:50.

  6. #16
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    Ah, didn't measure the lentgh inside, just outer length.
    Comm. 7.8"
    Mil 7.25"

    Hence .5" difference, and you can see it when both stocks are collapsed, the mill tube sits in the stock .5" more than the commercial does.

    As for the windham functioning with the monarch, your correct, but now that same upper wont shoot monarch with the new spikes lower its on.

    I put a PSA FN upper on th windham lower.
    Then built a spikes lower and put it with the windham upper(this combo is one we are talking about).


    So, if the length of travel is the same for mil and comm tubes, despite the comm tube being .55" shorter, I'm puzzled why the upper wont shoot ammo it shot befor the lower change.
    Last edited by Xrob; 09-03-13 at 16:01.

  7. #17
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    I've actually seen commercial tubes that are slightly longer on the exterior, because the back end is angled. This is why the Magpul CTR for commercial buffer tubes had a thicker pad. However, the interior length is identical.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xrob View Post
    Ah, didn't measure the lentgh inside, just outer length.
    Comm. 7.8"
    Mil 7.25"

    Hence .5" difference, and you can see it when both stocks are collapsed, the mill tube sits in the stock .5" more than the commercial does.

    As for the windham functioning with the monarch, your correct, but now that same upper wont shoot monarch with the new spikes lower its on.

    I put a PSA FN upper on th windham lower.
    Then built a spikes lower and put it with the windham upper(this combo is one we are talking about).


    So, if the length of travel is the same for mil and comm tubes, despite the comm tube being .55" shorter, I'm puzzled why the upper wont shoot ammo it shot befor the lower change.
    If you kept the same bolt carrier group and all upper components the same and just swapped onto a different lower then the only variable is the action spring (and arguably the buffer weight, but you said they're both carbine). Perhaps a longer/stronger action spring in the Spike's lower you built, hence the short stroking? IG gave evidence above of a WW rifle being shipped with a min-spec length action spring.
    Semper Paratus Certified AR15 Armorer

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASH556 View Post
    If you kept the same bolt carrier group and all upper components the same and just swapped onto a different lower then the only variable is the action spring (and arguably the buffer weight, but you said they're both carbine). Perhaps a longer/stronger action spring in the Spike's lower you built, hence the short stroking? IG gave evidence above of a WW rifle being shipped with a min-spec length action spring.
    Springs are the same length.

    I bought a new BCG for the windham/spikes build, it is an auto, like my original.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASH556 View Post
    The Monarch stuff is particularly low-pressure, even for .223 in my experience. PMC .223 is closer to 5.56 pressure and runs very consistently in my guns. I agree with the above poster that a well-lubed gun with 1,000 rounds of 5.56 through it may have loosened up enough to run the lower pressure .223.

    I wouldn't recommend setting the gun up to run lower pressure stuff. The reason your Windham upper does so is that it is over-gassed. Bushmaster/Windham and most other "commercial" AR manufacturers oversize their gas ports so they will run with weaker ammo and they won't get all the consumer complaints from guys who don't know any better.
    This is very good advice. Apply a generous amount of lube, break in the rifle and you may be able to shoot the lower pressure commercial ammunition after the rifle wears in enough.
    Train 2 Win

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