Are the Laws Of Armed Conflict obsolete?

[T2C]

This is not exactly a new issue. Does anyone remember reading about the V2 rocket attacks on London or the fire bombing of Dresden during WWII?

The proposal to punish Asad is just political manuevering by the Liberal left.

[glocktogo]

This is not exactly a new issue. Does anyone remember reading about the V2 rocket attacks on London or the fire bombing of Dresden during WWII?

The proposal to punish Asad is just political manuevering by the Liberal left.

It's not really a left vs. right issue, as evidenced by McCain, Boehner, Graham etc. supporting it. It has less than zero to do with any "atrocity". This is a multi-layered movement to enrich certain already obscenely rich assholes while flying the bird at Iran, whom they hate because iran refused to make them any more obscenely rich.

Green crosses all political boundaries.

[Moltke]

It's publicity. It's spin. And planning for the future.

The President is taking advantage of something just like the Newtown shooting. It doesn't matter that thousands are killed indiscriminately each day by other means. Since Assad used chemical weapons - now that can be thrown up in front of cameras to differentiate these dead from those dead to push an agenda. This whole thing is just not letting a good crisis go to waste. Win or lose the battle in Congress, in the end the left will be able to say that the Obama administration did what they could to stand in the way of WMD's being used against civilians. That the President took the high road and tried to do everything he could to punish a brutal dictator, and if they're smart they'll point out that the same people who promote guns rights here in America were pushing to leave chemical weapons in the hands of a murderous dictator. They're just building an image for the Obama administration and garnering emotional, moral and political support for the next stateside congressional battle they actually CARE ABOUT. We're either going to bomb Syria, invade Syria, or not - but regardless, the spin is that the President is trying to protect people and do the "right" thing, or at least, that's the spin.

[Koshinn]

We use OTM rounds (aka hollow points) currently. The JAG ruled in accordance with treaties that the purpose of the round is to enhance accuracy and not lethality.

The reason everyone isn't getting MK 262 MOD1 or similar ammo isn't because of treaties, it's probably because of cost or internal politics.

Well it's always about intent. FMJs aren't intended to fragment either, but they do. OTMs really aren't intended to expand, they're designed with accuracy in mind, so they're legal. But a soft point round would probably never be deemed legal by JAG under the current set of rules of war.

[Iraqgunz]

Isn't that what I said? Also, not all FMJ's fragment (as I recall). Part of it has to do with the muzzle velocity and the round.

I have seen recovered 7.62x39 rounds that didn't break apart and fragment to pieces.

Well it's always about intent. FMJs aren't intended to fragment either, but they do. OTMs really aren't intended to expand, they're designed with accuracy in mind, so they're legal. But a soft point round would probably never be deemed legal by JAG under the current set of rules of war.

[T2C]

It's not really a left vs. right issue, as evidenced by McCain, Boehner, Graham etc. supporting it. It has less than zero to do with any "atrocity". This is a multi-layered movement to enrich certain already obscenely rich assholes while flying the bird at Iran, whom they hate because iran refused to make them any more obscenely rich.

Green crosses all political boundaries.

Valid point. I haven't been impressed with the three you mentioned. I think that Obama and Kerry want to demonstrate their strong enough to take action and that Boehner and Graham are going along with it, because they don't want to suffer any political fallout due to inaction concerning the deaths of the children.

I respect McCain's military record, but I think he has been shifting left for quite some time. At times I think he has forgotten what war is like.

There is nothing humane about war. It's a huge mess in Syria and I think we need to watch and wait. I do not want to see any more of our young men and women come home in body bags.

[MountainRaven]

Those "laws" were of little use from the time they were signed. Otherwise the atrocities that were committed by the Japanese or Germans would have resulted in punishments that fit the crime.

I seem to recall that a good deal of those responsible, those who were not killed before capture and did not commit suicide after capture, hanged to death.

Those who are soldiers are executed by firing squad. Those who are royalty are executed by decapitation. Hanging is an execution for a petty criminal.

No, the laws mean nothing because they were simply an excuse to hang the losers. The winners who committed war crimes were lauded. "Our" war criminals versus "their" war criminals, as it were.

[Koshinn]

Is it wrong to think that the civilian population should be a part of war, instead of insulated from it?

[SteyrAUG]

I seem to recall that a good deal of those responsible, those who were not killed before capture and did not commit suicide after capture, hanged to death.

Those who are soldiers are executed by firing squad. Those who are royalty are executed by decapitation. Hanging is an execution for a petty criminal.

No, the laws mean nothing because they were simply an excuse to hang the losers. The winners who committed war crimes were lauded. "Our" war criminals versus "their" war criminals, as it were.

Just curious who "our" war criminals would be. Off the top of my head the only people I can think of are those in government who gave immunity to everyone at Unit 731 in exchange for their data.

And when the Japanese were decapitating the citizens of Nanking, men on the Bataan Death March, some of the Doolittle fliers and untold numbers of POWs I doubt they felt like they were getting the "royal" treatment.

[Koshinn]

Just curious who "our" war criminals would be. Off the top of my head the only people I can think of are those in government who gave immunity to everyone at Unit 731 in exchange for their data.

Anyone involved in using the two nuclear weapons. Anyone involved in firebombing entire cities. Etc.