Your HK P2000 experiences

[Crow Hunter]

I have been itching to get a new gun.

I have been leaning towards getting a DA gun with a hammer to try out for a while now. (I used to have several years ago but none now) I am looking for something near to the size of my Glock 19.

The HK P2000 is in the lead right now the the Beretta 92F Compact a close second.

HK P2000s are pretty rare around my parts and I don't know anyone who owns one or even where one might be for me to fondle but I know some of you guys do and I would like your experiences with it.

What do you like about it?

What do not like about it?

If I get the LEM and don't like it, is it user convertible to DA/SA or vice versa?

Have you had any issues with the integrated lock?

Can it be removed or permanently disabled if not removed?

Any issue finding magazines?

How does it carry for you?

Thanks for your time.

[ralph]

I've had one for some time..(light LEM) No, a lem gun cannot be converted to DA/SA (frames are different) Mags are reasonable, Grant, for example has them usually they're around $30-35, HKUSA is also a good place to get mags and parts, usually they're much cheaper than say, HKparts.net.. I really don't have any complaints with it. I would recommend installing a HK45 mag release on it as it's larger, interchanges, easier to use. I'm considering having Trijicon HD's installed I have them on my P-30, and I do like them. Size wise it's about like a G19,and is easy to carry. It's no slouch in the accuracy dept either, I think you'll like it. I've never had a issue with the lock, It'd been unlocked from day one, and has never been a problem, as to whether or not it could be disabled I don't know. I haven't had a issue with it so, I don't see any reason to.

[Psalms144.1]

Crow Hunter - I have a P2000 with "standard" LEM that I lightened a little by adding the reduced power FPB spring (a job that took all of 10 minutes and one punch to accomplish). I bought the pistol to replace the G19(s) I had been shooting almost exclusively for the six years prior to making the switch. I've been shooting it pretty much exclusively (less required semi-annual quals with my issued P229, my P30 and G19), and these are my thoughts:

Likes:
- Reliability - I have several thousand rounds of various types of 9mm through this pistol to date, and I bought it used, so I can't vouch for the age of its internals. It has fed, fired, and ejected everything I've fed it without a single bauble, even when I "limp wrist" it
- Accuracy - this was my biggest worry before buying the pistol, given it's fairly short barrel and sight radius. All I can say is that this little thing outshoots every Glock I've ever owned, including some G34s. With my Glocks, I would REALLY have to work hard at the 25 yard line, especially doing accuracy intensive drills like "the Humbler." With the P2000, I can now confidently take and make shots on "low probability" targets that would have made me all twitterpaited with a Glock. When I miss with my P2000, I can ALWAYS call the miss, and usually predict within an inch or where I threw it...
- Ergonomics - the P2000 frame "feels" good in my hand, and the grip angle is such that it points very naturally, unlike the G19. The grip isn't as "comfy" as the P30's "spiderman" grip, but I have no trouble with it either, and it doesn't suffer from any assinine "finger grooves" that need to be dremeled off.

Neutral:
- Size - the pistol is very compact, while still offering plenty of space for all of my fat fingers to maintain contact with the grip. Using the "finger" floorplate on the magazines gives a very nice "shelf" for my pinky to rest on, but I prefer the flat base magazines. Unfortunately, this size package comes at a reduction in magazine capacity over the G19 - 13 rounds versus 15
- Weight - a little heavier than my G19, especially with the metal (vice polymer) magazine - but definitely not a chore to carry all day every day, even in shorts
- Trigger - The LEM is NOT as fast as the Glock's safe action, when going for raw speed. My "splits" with my G19, at the peak of my training, were in the .15-18 range, while maintaining decent accuracy (all rounds on a 5" circle at 5-7 yards). HOWEVER, my "splits" with the LEM are in the .18-.21 range, while maintaining the same accuracy - so this is a "price" I'm willing to pay for vastly improved accuracy in deliberate shooting. Also, I'm in full agreement with Nyeti's assessment that the LEM is possibly the best "street" trigger for LE types, like myself, who spend a lot more time pointing guns at people that shooting guns at people...
- Magazines - as stated above, capacity is lower than competitively sized pistols, and the magazines are "more expensive" than Glock magazines - but certainly not outrageous. I'm paying about $30-35/magazine on the open market for P2000 mags - or about $5/mag more than "retail" on Glock magazines. P2000 magazines are harder to find, and seem to hit shelves in "waves," so when they're available, I tend to jump on several at a time.

Dislikes:
- Accessories - the P2000, despite having been the "co-winner" of the DHS competition years ago, is the "red headed step child" of the HK line. There are a limited number of companies making NS for it, even Meprolight, who offers a variety of color combinations for the P30 and USP, only offers "one size fits all (green-green 3-dot) for the P2000. Trijicon is now marketing the HDs, but Ameriglo won't even discuss making sights for it (they address the USP only for some reason). Likewise, holsters can be a little tough - even though most people make holsters for the USP or the P30/HK45 family, for some reason, the P2000 gets little love...
- Parts - not specific to the P2000, all HK repair/replacement parts are SPENDY. Be prepared to drop a bunch of money when you have to do routine spring replacement. Some parts are also hard to find, and HKUSA simply doesn't seem to have much control (or visibility) over when parts will be available.

As Ralph pointed out, unlike the USP and HK45 series of pistols, trigger groups are not interchangeable on the P2000/P30 series, so if you buy a LEM, you're stuck with it. You CAN have the DA/SA converted to LEM, but this conversion is, IIRC, not officially condoned by HK.

All in all, I'm VERY fond of the P2000 LEM, and I doubt you'll be disappointed as long as you're willing to take the time to learn the trigger system...

Regards,

Kevin

[Crow Hunter]

Thanks guys, very helpful.

So it looks like I would need to go LEM or DA/SA from the start. I have owned several DA/SA guns over the years and I don't really have a problem with them although I do much prefer a Glock trigger with the NY1 modification to a DA/SA with Sig being the one I am most familiar with.

Can you/do you decock the LEM?

Does it even have a decocker?

Is there even a notch in the hammer to hold it at full cock or does it follow back down to the "semi-cocked" position and the "un-cocked" position being a standard DA pull?

Will it damage the mechanism to thumb the hammer back, if that is even possible? (I assume not on both)

Kevin, since you have A LOT of experience with both Glock/Sig and now the HK. Do you prefer the LEM to the Sig DA/SA transition? I have less volume than you but I am similar in that I am mostly a Glock shooter that learned to shoot automatics on a Taurus/Beretta DA then moved to Sig and finally Glock. I still have access to and regularly dryfire/shoot a Sig P226.

Since I will have to pick one or the other (and probably order sight unseen), do you think it is better to go DA/SA, which I am familiar with, or jump right into the LEM? If so, which version?

I did used to own a USP40 back in the late 1990s. I didn't really have a complaint with it. I found the trigger to have a strange spongy "boingy" feeling versus my Sigs that I had at the time and because it was so big, I didn't shoot it that much. But not really any more distracting than the "sproing" of a Glock.

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

[Psalms144.1]

Crow Hunter - the LEM is "self decocking," and there is no manner to "cock" it manually. It's similar to a double action only trigger in that the hammer follows the slide forward after each shot. However, it's also like a SAO trigger in that the hammer is "pre-loaded" with most of the spring tension required to make it operate by the action of the slide - so all of the trigger action prior to the break is basically pulling against "slack." That's a horribly inelegant explanation, but it's a system that is truly unique.

My gut would normally tell me to have you stick with what you know, and go DA/SA. However, in this case there are two reasons I'm hesitant to do so. First and foremost, the DA trigger on the P2000 (like almost every other HK DA trigger) sucks hairy monkey balls. The DA on my HK45CT was in excess of 14 pounds, and gritty; I literally could not shoot WHO double action for more than about 50 rounds before my forearm and hands would start to cramp up. I doubt that the P2000's DA is that bad, but it might be, and you'd likely be pretty darned disappointed, especially coming from Sig. Second, the P-series decockers are small "nubs" on the back of the frame along the back face of the slide - and, as such, are unique from any other decocker you've likely worked with before. Not an insurmountable training obstacle, but something you need to think about going in.

Soooo - I hate to say it, but, since the HK is such a large financial investment, I REALLY think you should find a place where you can at least dry fire the pistol to get a feel for the different trigger characteristics. I came from Glock and DAK Sigs, so the consistent trigger on the LEM "works" better for me - but there was a learning curve to get to the point where I could run it well. Of the two options, I prefer the LEM. From a financial perspective, IF you get the LEM, I'd get the "V1" (light) LEM, which seems to have a much bigger market if you decide you can't live with it.

Regards,

Kevin

[ralph]

It's hard to describe a LEM trigger on the 'net.. While considered a DA only set up, the reality is, it's a different animal.. No, the LEM doesn't have a decocker, you simply let the trigger forward and the hammer also goes forward.. the pistol can't fire unless the trigger is pulled, much like a Glock.The LEM hammer is actually a two piece affair, In reality when the slide is racked the "hammer" is cocked, when the trigger is pulled back the visible part of the hammer goes back, and when the trigger is pulled the hammer will go forward under pressure from the second part of the hammer within the frame..as I said it's hard for me to explain The LEM hammer is bobbed, so "thumbing" it back is difficult, what I do for dry fire practice is to pull the trigger enough to get my thumb on the hammer, and pull the hammer back and get the pistol in LEM mode, as far as I know, it doesn't hurt anything. There is no notch to hold the hammer back after the trigger is pulled, unlike a DA/SA trigger, the visible part hammer will go forward to I guess what you could call "uncocked" position, if the trigger is released, however the hammer is still cocked, even though it looks "uncocked". Because the hammer is cocked, the trigger pull is long, but very light, until it gets to the back of it's stroke and hits a wall, at that point, about 4.5 lbs of pull will trip the hammer, I hope I didn't confuse you more, The light LEM is a good setup I have it in my P-2000, P-30, and last week switched my HK45ct over to light LEM..I will say this, The LEM isn't for everyone, some people hate'em and some (like myself) take awhile to master it I think it's worth the effort..

[Crow Hunter]

Thanks guys. I am definitely leaning towards the LEM option right now. But I will try my best to find both around here or at least the LEM. Most of the shops around here carry Sig, S&W and Glock with a smattering of Beretta here and there (usually if they carry Beretta shotguns). I know the owner of one up the road a ways. I can probably get him to order me one. But I hate not to buy it if I get him to go to the trouble of ordering it.

If you dryfire the LEM, can you pull the trigger a 2nd time or does it require you to reset the hammer like you have to reset the striker on the Glock?

Thanks again for helping me out.

[rathos]

Had a DA/SA in .40. Didn't care for a round, loved the gun. The double action pull was extremely heavy. Single action was great. Extremely accurate. Mags were super easy to find as they are the same ones the USP compacts use. High thumb or thumbs forward can be a bit of a pain due to the long slide releases on the gun. The P2000 also has quite a bit more holsters available as it was adopted by some major federal agencies.

I like the LEM trigger quite a bit more though it throws some off at first. When you shoot LEM the first cocked shot is much like a single action pull. If you don't cycle the slide the shots become very heavy like a double action, so you do have a second strike capability.

[ralph]

Thanks guys. I am definitely leaning towards the LEM option right now. But I will try my best to find both around here or at least the LEM. Most of the shops around here carry Sig, S&W and Glock with a smattering of Beretta here and there (usually if they carry Beretta shotguns). I know the owner of one up the road a ways. I can probably get him to order me one. But I hate not to buy it if I get him to go to the trouble of ordering it.

If you dryfire the LEM, can you pull the trigger a 2nd time or does it require you to reset the hammer like you have to reset the striker on the Glock?

Thanks again for helping me out.

You have to reset the hammer to put it in LEM mode when dry firing.. The heavy DA pull is there to keep the gun running in case something breaks and disables the LEM function.. Think of it as a backup system...

[HKGuns]

My P2000SK 9mm alternates carry duty with my Smith model 60 and a couple of other pistols, depending on where I am going and what I am doing. I can add nothing that hasn't already been said and agree with most all of what has been said. Mine too is dead nuts reliable and an accurate little bugger too. I converted mine from LEM to light LEM with around $15 worth of parts and far more time to get the trigger return spring installed than I'd care to admit.

From 7 yards this wont win any bullseye competition, but is an example. There are a ton of folks who shoot better than I and some worse. This was my second trip to the range with mine.