How Does A Civ CCW Responder Not Get Shot By LEO During An Active Shooting Incident?

[Mac5.56]

I figure today is a good day to post this as it seems very relevant considering the recent news about the shooting in DC.

Mods if you want to move this to Tactics/Training if you think that is more appropriate?

I was thinking about this last night before I went to bed and I was planning on posting it to the group for thoughts, especially from Trainers, Subject Matter Experts, and LEO, so here is my question:

How should a civilian who is present during an active shooting, who draws his/her weapon and engages a/the shooter (whether successful or not) respond immediately after his shots are fired in order to avoid being shot and killed by responding LEO?

The University I work at recently released a rather interesting video on how us simple civilians should respond to an active shooter, and the last option they provided us was to "FIGHT" if all else fails. In this scene the glorious students fend off the shooter with a belt, a pen, and a set of keys in between their knuckles long enough for the responding officers to come kill the shooter.

So it seems to me that because this is the official response of the State Police agency who made our video, that us civvies have a right to "fight" to defend ourselves... But, with that said, I'm 100% positive that if I drew my pistol, "fought" and eliminated the threat that the responding officer at my institution would shoot me without a seconds thought. I think they would also shoot me if I obeyed their gun free zone (which I do) and used a blunt object or a knife to defend myself. They wouldn't give me a chance to identify myself, they would just shoot to kill, and I say that more in empathy towards how crazy the situation would be, then I do to criticize them.

How would those of you in the know suggest a civilian respond after a weapon is drawn in order to avoid this most likely and most unfortunate of outcomes?

[NCPatrolAR]

Don't have a gun in your hands when the police get there is the best way.

Calling 911 and giving your detailed description to the operator may help but I wouldn't count on it

[Mac5.56]

So what drop your firearm, holster your firearm, what if it happens all within seconds?

I honestly think the civilian would be screwed and the media/responding agency would spin it to blame the CCW process and encourage more gun control.

My thought has always been to have a person in the party, or if alone one's self, call in after any action is taken and ask how to proceed from there on out.

If I shoot someone I'm going to court no matter what, but I just don't want to get shot because I responded to force with force.

[scottryan]

If your life is not in immediate danger, you run the other way and let the sheeple get shot.

Your life and life savings is not worth some stranger's life.

Expect to get shot when the SWAT team arrives. If you stop the shooter, expect to get charges filed for making the local PD look bad.

Expect a six or seven figure legal bill that all those morons you saved won't help you pay.

You don't want to end up like George Zimmerman.

When some idiotic parents tell me they would do anything to save their child's life, I responded to them by saying:

"So you would pay for my seven figure legal bill if I used my CCW to stop an active shooting at your child's school?"

Let the gene pool be thinned.

[C4IGrant]

Don't have a gun in your hands when the police get there is the best way.

Calling 911 and giving your detailed description to the operator may help but I wouldn't count on it

Right. When we do room clearing training with 2D targets, LE will COMMONLY shoot the LE targets.

Having talked with some of the best minds in the training world (and local LE), this is what I tell my students:

1. Make sure the threat is down.
2. Look for any other threats.
3. Holster weapon and conceal it.
4. Move away from the body (into a corner or some place you limit your exposure)
5. Call 911 and give a description of what you look like and what the bad guy looks like.
6. Have hands in the air! No sudden movements, etc.



C4

[Mac5.56]

If your life is not in immediate danger, you run the other way and let the sheeple get shot.

Your life and life savings is not worth some stranger's life.

Expect to get shot when the SWAT team arrives. If you stop the shooter, expect to get charges filed for making the local PD look bad.

Expect a six or seven figure legal bill that all those morons you saved won't help you pay.

You don't want to end up like George Zimmerman.

When some idiotic parents tell me they would do anything to save their child's life, I responded to them by saying:

"So you would pay for my seven figure legal bill if I used my CCW to stop an active shooting at your child's school?"

Let the gene pool be thinned.

This isn't about heroism. But just like if it only me in a dark alley, if I have no way to survive but to fight, I will fight and I'll do it to using the best tools on hand.

As will most of you all here.

[Mac5.56]

Thanks Grant.

What would your response be if the answer to No. 2 is: There are identifiable threats and responding LEO within the same general area?

A real world example would be the Mumbai shooting or maybe this Navy Yard shooting if it turns out there were two+ threats.

[J-Dub]

Don't have a gun in your hands when the police get there is the best way.

Calling 911 and giving your detailed description to the operator may help but I wouldn't count on it

Bingo. We're probably not going to take the time to ask if you're a good guy or bad guy.

Do what you have to do (hopefully kill the turd), and then put your gun down and keep your hands very visible.

Description is HUGE. I cant count how many times I've responded to an assault, fight, hit and run, ect, WITHOUT a description......we're already behind the 8-ball, no description puts us even further behind.

[Honu]

first off chances are if a shooter comes in and you are there and armed to engage
no LEO being called is going to be there the moment it happens !

so almost impossible for you to overlap in time
unless they are on scene at the same time by chance ?

I would be more fearful of being shot by another armed person
imagine the chaos and you see a guy with a gun pulling the trigger ?
would you think OH he is a good guy or would you think OH NO another shooter ?

if I was there for sure after stopping I would holster up conceal my firearm and take cover with others but also not hide ! still be with the group in plain site to LEO coming in as example or get into a safe area as quick as I could again not hiding kinda thing once the situation is under control I would for sure come forward as quick as I could and say I stopped the bad guy and then immediately lawyer up
so only thing to say is Yes I feared my life and stopped the threat

[SteyrAUG]

Don't have a gun in your hands when the police get there is the best way.

Calling 911 and giving your detailed description to the operator may help but I wouldn't count on it

I'd only add make sure you really want to go in. Obviously if you have kids in a school or something like that you are going. But keep in mind even with 911 being informed you look like a good candidate for the "active shooter" the police are responding to.

Sucks, but that is the way it is. Cops aren't gonna get themselves killed playing "Mother may I?"