How Does A Civ CCW Responder Not Get Shot By LEO During An Active Shooting Incident?

[Javelin]

Right. When we do room clearing training with 2D targets, LE will COMMONLY shoot the LE targets.

Having talked with some of the best minds in the training world (and local LE), this is what I tell my students:

1. Make sure the threat is down.
2. Look for any other threats.
3. Holster weapon and conceal it.
4. Move away from the body (into a corner or some place you limit your exposure)
5. Call 911 and give a description of what you look like and what the bad guy looks like.
6. Have hands in the air! No sudden movements, etc.



C4

Yes exactly and get any witnesses names, numbers and most importantly addresses. You are the victim but the police will probably see you as the threat so don't be threatening lol

[SteyrAUG]

I know what you're saying - my "go to" clothing line for civilian attire is Polo, and I'm pretty sure I blend in with every other guy in their 40's and 50's. I just found it funny that RL has stuff considered "fashionable" that could've come out of (at least) a Cabela's catalog. Maybe 5.11's not too removed...

Here's my problem.

I get all that stuff at cost being a dealer. So for the same money I can wear 511s, Woolrich, Propper, TruSpec, etc. or I can buy the crap at Wal Mart. I try and buy generic polos from Hanes so I stand out less, plus they have color options beyond black, white and grey.

[Eurodriver]

Here's my problem.

I get all that stuff at cost being a dealer. So for the same money I can wear 511s, Woolrich, Propper, TruSpec, etc. or I can buy the crap at Wal Mart. I try and buy generic polos from Hanes so I stand out less, plus they have color options beyond black, white and grey.

Why do you wear that stuff at all? Not being condescending. I just don't understand why anyone would want to be dressed like that.

No one would assume I'm packing....she is too.

[Alaskapopo]

I figure today is a good day to post this as it seems very relevant considering the recent news about the shooting in DC.

Mods if you want to move this to Tactics/Training if you think that is more appropriate?

I was thinking about this last night before I went to bed and I was planning on posting it to the group for thoughts, especially from Trainers, Subject Matter Experts, and LEO, so here is my question:

How should a civilian who is present during an active shooting, who draws his/her weapon and engages a/the shooter (whether successful or not) respond immediately after his shots are fired in order to avoid being shot and killed by responding LEO?

The University I work at recently released a rather interesting video on how us simple civilians should respond to an active shooter, and the last option they provided us was to "FIGHT" if all else fails. In this scene the glorious students fend off the shooter with a belt, a pen, and a set of keys in between their knuckles long enough for the responding officers to come kill the shooter.

So it seems to me that because this is the official response of the State Police agency who made our video, that us civvies have a right to "fight" to defend ourselves... But, with that said, I'm 100% positive that if I drew my pistol, "fought" and eliminated the threat that the responding officer at my institution would shoot me without a seconds thought. I think they would also shoot me if I obeyed their gun free zone (which I do) and used a blunt object or a knife to defend myself. They wouldn't give me a chance to identify myself, they would just shoot to kill, and I say that more in empathy towards how crazy the situation would be, then I do to criticize them.

How would those of you in the know suggest a civilian respond after a weapon is drawn in order to avoid this most likely and most unfortunate of outcomes?

I have thought about this as well if I responded off duty to an active shooter. Just some thoughts I had.

1. Call 911 and describe who you are and what your are wearing leave the line open and update dispatch and give the best intel you can as your looking for the shooter.

2. After your done engaging the shooter and you have scanned the area and you feel its safe. Put your gun away.

3. Follow all orders of responding officers even if it feels wrong like lay on the ground and let them cuff you up.

[RogerinTPA]

Newest tactical clothing guide...yeah, very metrosexual - got it.

http://global.ralphlauren.com/en-us/...ghts_KeyPieces

Check out the cargo pants! Seems the 5.11 guys aren't as removed as we might think.

That line was specifically designed to harden the look of non-heteros and metros.

[TAZ]

Understanding the risks and trying to mitigate them is the best option. As a civilian, IMO the best policy is to get out of the way unless you are directly involved in the breakout of hostilities. If you're there and see it unfold you should have a decent idea who the good guys are and who the bad guys are. If there are uniformed LEO in the immediate area let them do their thing without getting in the way. If there aren't any LEO around you're likely to have a minute or two or 7 before they get on scene so do your thing and get ready for the legal roller coaster ride.

If you are NOT privy to the whole picture stay the **** of it unless you have some super super serious reason to get involved, like your kid or other family are in immediate danger and there is no LEO help available. Going into harms way after the initial fray is over is a good way to get shot or shoot the wrong guy. You need to remember that coming on scene late puts you in the same boat as the cops. No real time to sort wheat from chaff when people are pointing guns. Instead of a CCW guy who just fended off a terrorist attack getting lit up by a SWAT team you may be the one lighting him up.

[skydivr]

So, what do they teach off-duty or plainclothes LEO?

I'm more than prepared to shout "POLICE OFFICER" and take a misdomeaner for impersonating rather than get shot...

[Alaskapopo]

So, what do they teach off-duty or plainclothes LEO?

I'm more than prepared to shout "POLICE OFFICER" and take a misdomeaner for impersonating rather than get shot...

In some areas its a felony. This is a tough situation to be sure.
Pat

[Apricotshot]

So, what do they teach off-duty or plainclothes LEO?

I'm more than prepared to shout "POLICE OFFICER" and take a misdomeaner for impersonating rather than get shot...

What's keeping a bad guy from saying the same thing?

[Eurodriver]

In some areas its a felony. This is a tough situation to be sure.
Pat

I can't see any sane judge, DA, PD prosecuting a man who just took out an active shooter but yelled DONT SHOOT POLICE OFFICER when PD proned him out.

An easy defense to that would be "I was telling the police not to shoot me."

Hardly prosecutable. unless you ran into an entire department who didn't want you to make them look bad.