SBR Upper Purchase?

[thetallengineer]

My room mate is in the process of getting a lower and starting the paper work for a SBR. He was told that he could go ahead and buy a 10.5" upper without any paper work as long as it was never mounted on the lower until the paper work was complete and in hand. Is this true?

[variablebinary]

In the event the BATF raids your home, possesion of an NFA upper without documentation and an open lower can be seen as intent to build an illegal firearm.

Some people suggest buying the upper and keeping it at grandma's till you are approved. That is overkill to me.

My upper didnt arrive till after I filed papers, but that was an economic issue, not a compliance matter...

[markm]

Is this true?

Yeah. Just don't put anything together. Shit! I had my short barreled upper for like 2 years before I finally F1'd two of my receivers. It was a deal I couldn't pass up at the time. So I bought it and socked it away.

There was some vague shit posted about being readily assembled or something. Some case law or something, but it was so vague, I didn't bother saving it.
In other words, if for some reason you had ATF in your home and it looked like the everything was in one location and could be quickly put together, you might have some explaining to do.

[thetallengineer]

Since my room mate is going to be getting the SBR lower, I've been wondering about what options this would present for a LMT MRP owner such as myself. Could I order a 14.5" or 10.5" barrel for my upper, remove my upper from my lower, install the 14.5" barrel, and then install the upper on HIS lower? Then keep the barrel in my safe when it is not being used on his lower?

Are there any written laws that state this is a no no? It "seems" like this is acceptable as long as one does not break the law and put the short upper a non-registered lower.

[VooDoo6Actual]

Good advice in the previous posts.


My understanding from having a real conversation with a States Attorney General is that the language is vague and done on purpose.

If you have a SBR (Upper No serial #) in residence or vacinity (e.g. garage safe and safe in house) and you have a lower that CAN be made/assembled/built into a functioning weapon that constitues an illegal weapon in BATF's eyes.

I also understand it is the Agents' call if he wants to file on that charge.


My advice is play it safe always...


Apparantly, the "it's just parts" is not holding water...

[VA_Dinger]

I suggest playing it safe. Just go through the legal process of getting a SBR permit for at least one of your lowers. That being said I have never heard of a single individual having been convicted of merely having a SBR length UPPER in their possession. If you do happen to buy the upper 1st, be smart and keep it stored away from any lowers until your permit comes back approved. It's just the smart way to do things.

[SuicideHz]

It's a lot like speeding. You are supposed to go no more than 40 in a 40. Some cops will care about going 50 and some won't. If you run past a cop who does care, you WILL get that ticket because by law he can give it to you- you broke the law and will pay your fine. The risk and whether it's worth taking it are up to you.

Now with NFA, the penalties are more severe and while I definitely see the immediate value of travelling 50 in a 40, I do not see any value in having a short upper and unregistered lower, certainly not enough of one to justify the substantially large penalties.

There's a lot of little rules to follow in dealing with these things- rules that noone can really keep an eye on and check to see if you are following them.

As a tech told me- 90% of us have made a mistake somewhere along the line. It's just important to follow as many of the laws as you can, when you can- especially when it's pretty cut and dry as to what is correct and incorrect.

[thetallengineer]

I appreciate everyone replying and offering advice. I have no intention or motivation to break any of the NFA rules, it's not worth the potential headache.

For my roomate it seems like it is ok for him to have the upper and he could keep it at his brothers house to be on the safe side until the paper work is complete.


For me, basically I just wanted to know if I could own a 12.5" barrel to use exclusively on my room mates lower when we go to the range and the rest of the time it would be in storage, in the pantry or somewhere else away from the other firearms. The only reason I would buy the extra barrel would be for use with his lower.

[Army Chief]

I'm sure others will disagree, but what you are proposing for yourself strikes me a rather dicey proposition. It's true that AR-based SBR modularity makes for some interesting gray areas, but the point of NFA law is that weapon x (in this case, your roommate's would-be SBR), with serial number y is authorized to be in the possession of person z. Since you are not that person, and you have no legal basis upon which to mount your unregistered upper on his registered lower, you're treading in shark-infested waters. (Yes, I realize that no uppers are techincally registered in the conventional sense, but that's kind of missing the point ... his SBR already has an associated upper with a specified length, etc.)

Would anything ever really come of this? Likely not, but in the eyes of the law, you are not permitted to own an SBR, and if your only reason for owning an otherwise NFA upper would be to mate with someone else's weapon, I think you might be inviting a certain level of scrutiny, should anyone ever come looking. Have you broken the law? Probably not. Are you potentially asking for trouble? Likely so.

Chief

[SuicideHz]

Oh, I didn't realize you wanted to own this upper yourself to use solely on his lower...

You have your own AR lower?