Is Ted Cruz Helping Or Hurting Our Cause?

[Pork Chop]

Opposition is higher now than it was then...likewise they had the majority in the house then, which they don't now.



System? a majority is a majority. Democrats won't have control of all both houses of legislative/executive again for another generation, they blew it that badly and they're likely to lose the Senate in 2014...unless Ted Cruz blows it, which is looking quite likely (think 4th and 45 on your own 10 yard line...and going for it).

That said, I "trust" politicians to act like the venal scum that they are. I "trust" in a politician's ambition to get re-elected. If a single-payer system was introduced now, Democrats would run the other way.

If you think Ted Cruz gives a rip about anything other than Ted Cruz, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. This is about his ambitions, he doesn't actually want Obamacare to go away, he wants to use it as an issue to get the nomination.

If you believe otherwise than you haven't been paying attention.

If Ted Cruz really cared about getting rid of Obamacare he'd be looking for a way to become the majority in the Senate, if he wanted to make a symbolic/principled stand, he'd introduce legislation to either delay obamacare's implementation as well as applying it to every member of the Federal government and legislative branch. Both would easily succeed, have a practical economic/political effect, and give more time to eliminate Obamacare before it gets implemented.

You are confusing "Pork Chop endorses Ted Cruz" with "Pork Chop thinks Cruz is another sleazy politician but he happens to be doing something I agree with". Self serving or not, there needs to be a stand against this.

Now, I'm done arguing the single-payer outcome because I firmly believe what I said and apparently so do you, so let's agree to revisit this subject after Obamacare implodes under its own weight and one of us can enjoy a tasty plate of crow.

If its me, I'll man up and admit I was wrong, but I'm telling you, single-payer was always the goal. Obamacare was just the roadmap to get there.

[Gutshot John]

You are confusing "Pork Chop endorses Ted Cruz" with "Pork Chop thinks Cruz is another sleazy politician but he happens to be doing something I agree with". Self serving or not, there needs to be a stand against this.

I agree there needs to be a stand, but I see no strategic virtue in a political Alamo.

He is handing Democrats exactly what they want.

If its me, I'll man up and admit I was wrong, but I'm telling you, single-payer was always the goal. Obamacare was just the roadmap to get there.

I do believe it was the goal, I don't believe Democrats anticipated the virulent opposition to the law. That miscalculation doomed any single-payer effort...assuming republicans don't screw the pooch.

[Belmont31R]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...are-nightmare/

[Belmont31R]

For accuracy we are a republic not a democracy.

[Gutshot John]

For accuracy we are a republic not a democracy.

For accuracy a Republic (with capital R) is a form of democracy (with a small D).

What is a Republic?

A representative democracy is still a form of democracy.

[Pork Chop]

I agree there needs to be a stand, but I see no strategic virtue in a political Alamo.

He is handing Democrats exactly what they want.



I do believe it was the goal, I don't believe Democrats anticipated the virulent opposition to the law. That miscalculation doomed any single-payer effort...assuming republicans don't screw the pooch.

Fair enough, but I see the health care industry absolutely decimated after this. Insurance companies destroyed. Hell, my own policy is doubling in premium, so I can see how this only works so long as the subsidies we'll all be forced to apply for keep coming. What happens in a few years if the start scaling back those subsidies? They've put themselves into a position to have the power to control that virulent opposition by squeezing our budget with those subsidies.

Most can't afford the new costs without the subsidy, so if they pull that back in the future, but still require you to carry coverage or pay heavy penalties, how many of the average citizens you know will be so resistant to a new, wonderful program that takes all the pain and stress away?

Don't worry citizen, we'll take care of you without the stress and struggle you're dealing with at the hands of the rich, greedy Doctors and hospitals and those evil insurance companies reaping ridiculous profits while you struggle to make ends meet. It's just not fair, citizen. Let us take that all away. And remember, if you like your Doctor, you can keep your Doctor. (Just like we told you you could keep your current insurance plan)

These ****ers are playing the game 20 steps ahead.

[Belmont31R]

For accuracy a Republic (with capital R) is a form of democracy (with a small D).

What is a Republic?

A representative democracy is still a form of democracy.

But the two are very different. I don't care if a republic is a form of democracy. A democracy is mob rule and shouldn't be interchanged with a representative republic.

[Gutshot John]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...are-nightmare/

Yep, hit people in their pocketbook and see the Democrats get voted out of office.

I know many liberals who are starting to go "wtf did we do?"

Cognitive dissonance is a wonderful thing.

[Gutshot John]

But the two are very different. I don't care if a republic is a form of democracy. A democracy is mob rule and shouldn't be interchanged with a representative republic.

Incorrect a Democracy is form of government of where the people vote on EVERYTHING.

A Republic is a democratic form of government where the people vote for people to represent their interests.

By definition Republics are representative, so saying "representative republic" is redundant.

[Gutshot John]

If you want to be realllly technical, the USA is a Federated Constitutional Republic.