Excellent article on Marine peeing on corpse

[thopkins22]

They didn't even know it was filmed until it was released.

Sure they did. One of them looked at the camera and said, "getting it on video?" The camera man responded in the affirmative.

Then another one made a comment about a shower or golden shower...not sure which.

Here's the video. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ddb_1326259280

ETA:
It was a good article, and he seems like a good guy. It also raised some good points about some of the officers that were brought down because of it. But if you're going to do something that's in poor taste, make sure there aren't video cameras and witnesses. Certainly it's one of the downsides to having so many video cameras along for the ride.

Upon watching the video, it's implausible that any of the four didn't know there was a video camera. They looked at it and one of them commented loudly about it. Stress does weird things to your decisions, and I hope he's able to deal with the PTSD that he suffers with and move on in life. I'm also glad that he's able to keep his benefits after retirement.

[Arctic1]

It's quite simple really. This country never had the intestinal fortitude to do what needed done, to control the battlefield with an iron fist and crush the enemy in a decisive fashion. No, we have to "help" the enemy see the error of their ways and rehabilitate them, or take their toys and send them to bed without supper.

I really don't have an issue with treating the enemy kindly and rebuilding their infrastructure, but only AFTER an unconditional surrender and complete control. We never got either of those in that shithole. Those filthy savages act like complete animals, ignore every international law on modern warfare and indiscriminately target civilians in unspeakable ways. So be it.

I'm all for striking our enemies with missiles and planes, but I will never again support putting a single boot on the ground anywhere in the world unless the overwhelming majority of the American population is calling for the total annihilation of the enemy and salting their earth.

What needed to be done then? And I am not sure how your post correlates to Marines pissing on corpses...

And we did win in a decisive fashion, against AQ and the Taliban. They were defeated and on the run. We just took a time out that lasted too long and gave them time to regroup and reorganize.

The goal was never to demolish Afghanistan the country. It was to make it impossible for terrorist organizations to use Afghanistan as a safe zone, it was to demolish the AQ presence in the country and to find OBL. Unseating the Taliban was a natural consequence.

Most of the people in Afghanistan don't care for the Taliban, they don't care for the US or Norway for that matter either. Until we start killing the wrong people or piss on the corpses of our enemies.

I am not sure what kinds of decisive actions you would have seen the alliance take to prevent the situation that we are in now from developing, 12 years after the fact.

The mission in Afghanistan is off topic anyways, and discussed in previous threads.

[glocktogo]

What needed to be done then? And I am not sure how your post correlates to Marines pissing on corpses...

And we did win in a decisive fashion, against AQ and the Taliban. They were defeated and on the run. We just took a time out that lasted too long and gave them time to regroup and reorganize.

The goal was never to demolish Afghanistan the country. It was to make it impossible for terrorist organizations to use Afghanistan as a safe zone, it was to demolish the AQ presence in the country and to find OBL. Unseating the Taliban was a natural consequence.

Most of the people in Afghanistan don't care for the Taliban, they don't care for the US or Norway for that matter either. Until we start killing the wrong people or piss on the corpses of our enemies.

I am not sure what kinds of decisive actions you would have seen the alliance take to prevent the situation that we are in now from developing, 12 years after the fact.

The mission in Afghanistan is off topic anyways, and discussed in previous threads.

No, we didn't. They may have been on the run, but they were never defeated. We never had any declaration or cessation of hostilities from the enemy. We've allowed our troops to languish in an openly hostile foreign territory that we've never fully controlled and got them pot shot and blown up, FOR YEARS. It's repugnant. This is what you get when you do this to your troops; fear; rage; suicide; desecration; mass murder, you name it.

Afghanistan is a cluster**** of biblical proportions. If only we'd had a leader in charge that had ever bothered to study the history of the region, we might've had a different outcome. We didn't and we still don't. It's unconscionable.

[ABNAK]

I know that bad things happen in warfare. That does not mean that we should approve or accept that it happens.

Cool, they were pissed off and wanted some payback. They got their payback when they killed the bastards dead. The moment they decided to piss on the corpses of their defeaten enemy, they disrespected the uniform and hurt the effort that has, unfortunately, cost us many lives over the last 12 years. Do you not think that these kinds of incidents do not put US servicemen and women at risk for green on blue attacks?

This isn't all out existential warfare; win or be conquered, this is a security assistance mission to the government of Afghanistan. Acts like these don't exactly help increase support, on either side.

It is also an example of low-level leadership failure, someone there should have had the fortitude to tell these guys to knock it off as soon as he saw what was going on.

It was their way of exacting revenge for a Marine's leg being hung in a tree. Other than making it public, I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it. We'll have to agree to disagree about this.

As for it inciting the blue-on-green crap, that's a whole other issue and I'd likely deal with it in a manner you wouldn't approve of. Again, off topic.

[Moose-Knuckle]

If I ever have the honor of meeting any of those Marines . . . the drinks are on me.

[ABNAK]

Most of the people in Afghanistan don't care for the Taliban, they don't care for the US or Norway for that matter either. Until we start killing the wrong people or piss on the corpses of our enemies.

I have to ask, although I probably know the answer: did the Taliban hanging that deceased Marine's leg in a tree alienate the population? Something tells me it didn't. So if it isn't played both ways then I don't really care how they see it, i.e. they'll turn a blind eye with a wink and a nod to the Taliban doing it but not us. They're evidently using a double standard so screw them.

[T2C]

Emotionally I can understand how the Marines felt and how this incident happened. Realistically it should not have happened.

If anyone saw an individual taking photos or recording the incident with their telephone or camera, they should have stopped the recording immediately.

When I was a NCO a lot of years ago there were no cell phones or small video recorders, but we did have a few shutterbugs with Nikon cameras in our area. My job was to protect the men who worked for me and I took my job very seriously. I advised the shutterbugs that if any pictures were being taken at an inappropriate moment, their camera would become an instant suppository.

[Sensei]

It's quite simple really. This country never had the intestinal fortitude to do what needed done, to control the battlefield with an iron fist and crush the enemy in a decisive fashion. No, we have to "help" the enemy see the error of their ways and rehabilitate them, or take their toys and send them to bed without supper.

Such was the lesson of WWI; best to rebuild one's conquered enemy so that you don't have to fight the next generation that has been hardened by poverty. Some might say that WWII, or at least the European half, could have been avoided had Germany been dealt with in a more humane fashion after the Geat War.

Then, post-WWII success in West Germany and Japan taught the world that it was indeed possible to rebuild previously totalitarian societies into flourishing democracies with enough treasure and manpower. The Bush Docterine was simply a more preemptive extension of this thinking.

So, this leads us to attempting to replicate in the 3rd World what was successful in previously developed countries. Unfortunately, I don't think that the international community is ready to face the fact that all of those lessons from the past century were wrong, and that Conan and Genghis Kahn got it right (www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PQ6335puOc).

[samuse]

I'm a nice guy and I'd shoot a Taliban and piss on 'em a few times a day and still be a nice guy.... I'm behind the Marines 100%. Assholes win.

IMO, winning a war has nothing to do with moral high ground or doing the right thing. That's just a matter of religion, slant, and perception. I ain't about none of that shit. Winning a war is about winning. Plain and simple.

You'll never start a fight, whip someone's ass, and come out lookin' like the nice guy...

[theblackknight]

If I ever have the honor of meeting any of those Marines . . . the drinks are on me.

I posted the same on forcebutt with the video of the interview.