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Thread: 2014: Year of the Chinese AR?

  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by ennbeegunny15 View Post
    you hit the nail on the head. most folks on other forums i venture into are worried about cost, i can't tell you how many threads i see about del-ton, dpms, ptac (psa) is better than dd, bcm. colt all you are paying for is the name....they aren't going to get off the bench, they aren't going to take classes or run it hard. so that will work for them. and they think after 500 rounds with no hiccups that it's the greatest thing since sliced cheese. i don't even try to help em anymore. and don't get me started on when they ask which upper to get and people recommend the gold standards and folks will chime in with get a PSA. PSA is great for ammo...and that's pretty much it.
    Yep, PSA is junk... CHF barrels are junk.. Lowers and uppers are disintegrating by the truckload. At least the Chinese manufacturers wont have to aim high to surpass this level of crap. I worry about cost, anybody with limited funds and common sense must. Quality can be had at a decent price.
    Last edited by quaesitor logica; 02-01-14 at 01:11.

  2. #182
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    I think he may have been referring to things like the PTAC line. Nobody questions their FN made CHF barrels. I have one myself and it's solid.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by quaesitor logica View Post
    Yep, PSA is junk... CHF barrels are junk.. Lowers and uppers are disintegrating by the truckload. At least the Chinese manufacturers wont have to aim high to surpass this level of crap. I worry about cost, anybody with limited funds and common sense must. Quality can be had at a decent price.
    Ugh, not this again. Can't we just get a PSA thread going
    From TOS ... "buy the shit out of that thing, all the mil spec is just nonsense."

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by discreet View Post
    Ugh, not this again. Can't we just get a PSA thread going
    LOL.. kinda meant it that way
    Last edited by quaesitor logica; 02-01-14 at 16:33.

  5. #185
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    Norinco AR clones have been widely available in Canada for several decades. The early copies were fugly and there was little compatibility with any mil-spec parts/accessories without a lot of fitting. That was 12-15 years ago. A lot has changed since then. The larger Canadian importers like Canada Ammo and Lever Arms worked with the manufacturer to build a quality AR that was within spec. to a large degree they succeeded. Function-wise, the new Norinco CQ-A stacks up well with America-built entry-level rifles. Anodization/parkerization can be hit or miss and you will find more machine/tool marks than say an LMT, DD or Noveske; but then again we're talking about a rifle that retails under $700 Canadian. The factory mags are crap. They come with a commercial buffer tube and in Canada are offered with 14.5" & 10.5" bbls, as we don't have to deal with any SBR regs to deal with. Accuracy is usually quite good. The only thing I don't care for are the springs. Those I'd swap out first chance.

    I currently own 3 Colts, 2 LMT, 2 STAG, 1 S&W, 1 DD, 1 KAC, 1 Noveske & 1 Norinco CQ-A, along with a custom billet ATRS. I've owned many others. Honestly, I like the Chinese rifle much more than the DPMS I previously owned and would opt for the former everytime over say an Olympic Arms.

    At the moment, the ONLY chinese-made firearms legally permitted to enter the USA are shotguns. The ATF will not sign off on my form 6NIA if the CQ-A is listed. If prohibitions are lifted and Norinco gains access to US markets once again, you will see a dramatic readjustment of AR prices. Looking at economy of scale, if they can retail them in Canada for sub-$700, you could easily knock off several hundred bucks just on volume alone.

    As for Norinco M-14 clones, I own three, along with a Springfield. All three Norincos are fully kitted out with USGI parts. However, they work just fine out of the box and the old complaint that their bolts and receivers were "soft" hasn't applied for 20 years. Probably the only problem is some will have an improperly indexed bbl. it's an easy fix.

    The Chinese are willing to build products to whatever price point they're asked to by the importer demands just as long as they're willing to pay extra. In terms of firearms, they still have a way to go match most American makers in terms of finish/cosmetics, but they're actually building pretty reliable, wholly functional firearms at a price almost anyone can afford. That said, Canadian dealers continue to regularly sell out their stocks of American made ARs, and there are several Canadian company's also manufacturing ARs these days. I wouldn't worry about Norinco putting Colt or RRA out of business.

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by X-man View Post
    Norinco AR clones have been widely available in Canada for several decades. The early copies were fugly and there was little compatibility with any mil-spec parts/accessories without a lot of fitting. That was 12-15 years ago. A lot has changed since then. The larger Canadian importers like Canada Ammo and Lever Arms worked with the manufacturer to build a quality AR that was within spec. to a large degree they succeeded. Function-wise, the new Norinco CQ-A stacks up well with America-built entry-level rifles. Anodization/parkerization can be hit or miss and you will find more machine/tool marks than say an LMT, DD or Noveske; but then again we're talking about a rifle that retails under $700 Canadian. The factory mags are crap. They come with a commercial buffer tube and in Canada are offered with 14.5" & 10.5" bbls, as we don't have to deal with any SBR regs to deal with. Accuracy is usually quite good. The only thing I don't care for are the springs. Those I'd swap out first chance.

    I currently own 3 Colts, 2 LMT, 2 STAG, 1 S&W, 1 DD, 1 KAC, 1 Noveske & 1 Norinco CQ-A, along with a custom billet ATRS. I've owned many others. Honestly, I like the Chinese rifle much more than the DPMS I previously owned and would opt for the former everytime over say an Olympic Arms.

    At the moment, the ONLY chinese-made firearms legally permitted to enter the USA are shotguns. The ATF will not sign off on my form 6NIA if the CQ-A is listed. If prohibitions are lifted and Norinco gains access to US markets once again, you will see a dramatic readjustment of AR prices. Looking at economy of scale, if they can retail them in Canada for sub-$700, you could easily knock off several hundred bucks just on volume alone.

    As for Norinco M-14 clones, I own three, along with a Springfield. All three Norincos are fully kitted out with USGI parts. However, they work just fine out of the box and the old complaint that their bolts and receivers were "soft" hasn't applied for 20 years. Probably the only problem is some will have an improperly indexed bbl. it's an easy fix.

    The Chinese are willing to build products to whatever price point they're asked to by the importer demands just as long as they're willing to pay extra. In terms of firearms, they still have a way to go match most American makers in terms of finish/cosmetics, but they're actually building pretty reliable, wholly functional firearms at a price almost anyone can afford. That said, Canadian dealers continue to regularly sell out their stocks of American made ARs, and there are several Canadian company's also manufacturing ARs these days. I wouldn't worry about Norinco putting Colt or RRA out of business.
    Thanks for the info. I wasn't aware chinese-crap (I mean AR15's) already are in Canada.

    that is exactly what I suspected, that Chinese AR parts will have QC and fitment issues with American-made milspec AR's. Now if they built them to American specs and match the quality of locally made parts, I would still speculate that it will cost almost the same as US-made parts. They'd have to factor in shipping and import costs to the price.

    AR parts are pretty cheap as it is (for now) with receivers as low as $40, BCG's $80, etc. I would be really hesistant to buy Chinese-made parts even if it was $10-20 cheaper. The biggest problem I see is the QC, CS, and warranty for their parts since its from China. Why take the risk when you can buy AR parts here, have better quality/CS/QC, while supporting your local economy? Are you going to send your faulty BCG (or other parts) back to China if it doesn't work properly???

    Now granted there may be a market for cheaper Chinese parts in the US. I just doubt it will be of any real significance since the US AR15 market is already doing pretty well.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by JusticeM4 View Post
    Thanks for the info. I wasn't aware chinese-crap (I mean AR15's) already are in Canada.

    that is exactly what I suspected, that Chinese AR parts will have QC and fitment issues with American-made milspec AR's. Now if they built them to American specs and match the quality of locally made parts, I would still speculate that it will cost almost the same as US-made parts. They'd have to factor in shipping and import costs to the price.

    AR parts are pretty cheap as it is (for now) with receivers as low as $40, BCG's $80, etc. I would be really hesistant to buy Chinese-made parts even if it was $10-20 cheaper. The biggest problem I see is the QC, CS, and warranty for their parts since its from China. Why take the risk when you can buy AR parts here, have better quality/CS/QC, while supporting your local economy? Are you going to send your faulty BCG (or other parts) back to China if it doesn't work properly???

    Now granted there may be a market for cheaper Chinese parts in the US. I just doubt it will be of any real significance since the US AR15 market is already doing pretty well.
    I hear you. A Norinco LPK wouldn't be my first choice for my next build, but then again neither would several American kits, especially DPMS. Awhile back LPK supplies all but dried up and the only kits available were the DPMS. I tried five different kits before giving up in disgust at the absolute junk DPMS was putting out. Garbage springs, soft hammers, etc... I was finally lucky enough to stumble across one from LMT.

    As much as I know you guys don't want to admit it, the Chinese have advanced far enough to develop the capacity/capability to build competitive entry-level firearms. 25 years ago they were turning out a lot of crap - and don't get me wrong, they are still able to deliver the spectacular turd now and again - but CNC mills have replaced the old school manual mills and lathes and they have machists who know how to program them. As for steel, much of what they're using originated from American and Canadian steel mills. China is one of the largest steel recyclers on the planet and more than one American or Canadian warship has ended up in the hands of Chinese ship-breakers.

  8. #188
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    I did not read through the last ten pages so if this has been stated forgive me.

    I noticed the manufacturer is "wotech", which is a secondary name for the company "WeTech" who produces Gas blow back airsoft rifles. You may remember this from back when the ATF tried to modify one of them to shoot a 5.56 round....

    I think I'll stick to something american made...
    when life closes doors on you, blow them off the hinges.

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