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Thread: 2014: Year of the Chinese AR?

  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinlessorrow View Post
    Is this the same place that had to put safety nets due to the huge number of people who committed suicide by jumping from the roof of the building they work at?
    Sure is, still doesn't seem to affect the quality of those IPADS. If the Chinese learn from this mistake they will build the AR factories underground and save on netting.

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrvco View Post
    Apparently not directly, but it sounds like they manufacture a certain % of parts per gun and/or certain parts to a certain percentage of completion.

    Regardless, we make plenty of crappy products here in the US. On numerous occasions I've had to return "Made with pride in the USofA" products to Home Depot or wherever due to shoddy workmanship.

    Underestimate the Chinese at your own peril. We fell into the same trap with the Japanese automobile industry in the late 70's and I see many of the same arguments being used in this thread.
    Bingo

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by quaesitor logica View Post
    Little research goes a long way, now unless things have changed in the past year and a half it is still that way. You and I can buy direct from the government... but we aren't foreign central banks are we...
    And that's why going on old info is dangerous. Non-competitive tender is allowed from all bidders. It's an interesting paradox because on one side you have Wall St. broker-dealers taking a commission, on the other side you have foreign central banks buying direct. People would gripe about either outcome...

    "SEND IT" happens to be my trigger words...

  4. #144
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    2014: Year of the Chinese AR?

    Honestly, given advances in manufacturing tech in China, I'm sure that they could turn out decent firearms. The tolerances are well within what other complex mechanical devices already made there have to conform to. It's only when you get "cheap" that you have to worry about quality.

    As for all of the comments along the lines of "item X would cost ten times more if it were made in the US," you have to realize that the argument only stands if the item were to maintain the same PERCENTAGE of profitability. Not dollars of profit. If you look at dollars of profit, something like an iPad would cost about $617 vs $499. That also drops Apples gross MARGIN of profit to about 15.25%. They would make the same dollars on each unit sold, just a lower percentage of profit. The bigger issue is a complete lack of infrastructure to product a majority of the components. You could assemble them here, but most of the parts would still be produced overseas. (See, the new MacPro)

    (Edited to add, the above number of $617 includes an INSANE labor cost of $30 an hour for production. Numbers run by iSupply and The Atlantic.)
    Last edited by _Stormin_; 01-22-14 at 11:24.
    "SEND IT" happens to be my trigger words...

  5. #145
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    China has already made headway in the timepiece segment of 'Swiss Made' watches which it only requires 51% or so to be called a 'Swiss Watch'. Large companies including Omega, all have of parts and even some casings that are made in China. As someone has already mentioned, 'margins' play a huge role in this as customer demand continues to increase for lower priced 'higher' quality items. The internet doesn't help where companies struggle to keep up with pricing that is often undercut by an operation that has less overhead or more buying power on a specific product. In short it seems that consumers have created and continue to foster this environment. The Chinese are capable, if supervised and undergo spot QC inspections, to turn a good product. They have the machinery to make much more complex products.

    Taking the case of the 'Swiss Made' watches, I wonder what legal limitations do manufacturers here in the US to state a specific product is 'American Made'. 75%, 85%? Unless buying from a known source i.e Colt, KAC, BCM it would be safe to say that 2014 may be the year of Caveat Emptor for the AR industry.
    P144:1

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by l8apex View Post
    Unless buying from a known source i.e Colt, KAC, BCM it would be safe to say that 2014 may be the year of Caveat Emptor for the AR industry.
    i would aruge that this has been the case for quite some time.

    theres enough american made garbage out there to give the chinese a run for the money.

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcard600 View Post
    i would argue that this has been the case for quite some time.

    theres enough american made garbage out there to give the chinese a run for the money.
    I would have to agree here. Makers like DPMS represent the worst of manufacturing practices with the AR. We already have enough crap AR's and don't really need China making them, too.

    People have been citing iPods and whatnot as examples of quality Chinese products. These items are not firearms.

    US manufacturers that don't follow the TDP tend to make crap AR's. Will China follow the TDP or at least an "unofficial" copy of it?

    Another issue involves the nature of how weapons components would most likely be manufactured differently than consumer goods in the PRC.

    The Chinese-military-controlled weapons industry would undoubtedly be the only entities allowed to make firearms and firearm components. Would they make "good" components, or would they more likely make low quality ones as yet another way to undermine us? My suspicions tell me they would make low quality, or at least lesser quality, AR parts at an extreme discount. This might have the effect of driving the top tier US manufacturers out of business. (It's happened in other industries). I know there was an article several years ago that the Chinese were making components for some of our aircraft, or something. I think this is a huge mistake. I do not trust the Chinese to make weapons components for us. They are not our friends. They are an enemy that unfortunately we will probably end up fighting, and losing a war to.

    If it can be proven to me that the Chinese make an AR that follows the TDP then I'll take it all back.

    That is a very big "IF", however.
    Last edited by Doc Safari; 01-22-14 at 17:27.

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Stormin_ View Post
    And that's why going on old info is dangerous. Non-competitive tender is allowed from all bidders. It's an interesting paradox because on one side you have Wall St. broker-dealers taking a commission, on the other side you have foreign central banks buying direct. People would gripe about either outcome...

    So besides the Chinese central bank, which other central banks have direct computer access to the U.S treasury to purchase U.S debt? You have a list? Do you have an updated list of foreign central banks that can buy debt directly from the U.S Treasury, bypassing the Wallstreet banks designated by eh U.S treasury as primary dealers? You didn't contraindicate this.

    Anyway, back to the Chinese manufactured AR's, The components that make up an AR are not very complex machining operations. Chinese already have the tech to do this. The only thing stopping them is profit margin.
    Last edited by quaesitor logica; 01-22-14 at 21:17.

  9. #149
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    How exactly does one wear out a QA 5 in Canada with those awesome 5 round magazines?

    From some of the reviews I see about it they love these things in the great white north. Go figure. They always comment about the 6 position stock!

    Sounds like a Red Jacket game changer.

    Pass.
    "Run fast. Shoot straight. Die proud." -Boba Fett

    Trample the weak. Hurdle the dead.

    "Despite what your mamma told you, violence does solve problems." -Ryan Job

  10. #150
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    People have been citing iPods and whatnot as examples of quality Chinese products. These items are not firearms.
    Handle a Polytech AK and tell me it's not a quality product.

    The Chinese-military-controlled weapons industry would undoubtedly be the only entities allowed to make firearms and firearm components. Would they make "good" components, or would they more likely make low quality ones as yet another way to undermine us? My suspicions tell me they would make low quality, or at least lesser quality, AR parts at an extreme discount. This might have the effect of driving the top tier US manufacturers out of business. (It's happened in other industries). I know there was an article several years ago that the Chinese were making components for some of our aircraft, or something. I think this is a huge mistake. I do not trust the Chinese to make weapons components for us. They are not our friends. They are an enemy that unfortunately we will probably end up fighting, and losing a war to.
    MMC AR-15s are going for $500. PTAC AR-15s are at $420 plus assembly of the lower ($25 at ADCO, if you can't do it yourself). I'm not sure how much lower AR-15s Chinese can go for.

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