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Thread: 2014: Year of the Chinese AR?

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Stormin_ View Post
    Honestly, given advances in manufacturing tech in China, I'm sure that they could turn out decent firearms. The tolerances are well within what other complex mechanical devices already made there have to conform to. It's only when you get "cheap" that you have to worry about quality.

    As for all of the comments along the lines of "item X would cost ten times more if it were made in the US," you have to realize that the argument only stands if the item were to maintain the same PERCENTAGE of profitability. Not dollars of profit. If you look at dollars of profit, something like an iPad would cost about $617 vs $499. That also drops Apples gross MARGIN of profit to about 15.25%. They would make the same dollars on each unit sold, just a lower percentage of profit. The bigger issue is a complete lack of infrastructure to product a majority of the components. You could assemble them here, but most of the parts would still be produced overseas. (See, the new MacPro)

    (Edited to add, the above number of $617 includes an INSANE labor cost of $30 an hour for production. Numbers run by iSupply and The Atlantic.)
    Its not the advances in manufacturing tech I'm worried about, its QC and consistency.

    There are so many crap products from China (not only firearm related) that I don't know if I trust a gun part made by chinese.


    MMC AR-15s are going for $500. PTAC AR-15s are at $420 plus assembly of the lower ($25 at ADCO, if you can't do it yourself). I'm not sure how much lower AR-15s Chinese can go for.
    +1

    I doubt they can produce an AR in the sub-$400 range. If they did, that product is highly questionable. They should stick to making AK's and SKS.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by quaesitor logica View Post
    So besides the Chinese central bank, which other central banks have direct computer access to the U.S treasury to purchase U.S debt? You have a list? Do you have an updated list of foreign central banks that can buy debt directly from the U.S Treasury, bypassing the Wallstreet banks designated by eh U.S treasury as primary dealers? You didn't contraindicate this.
    I didn't need to contradict a damn thing, your information is incomplete. Since October 2012 EVERY nation, central bank, bank, family, individual with access to a computer and half decent knowledge to fill out a form online, etc, can and does buy bonds directly from the US Treasury. There is no list because I simply do not know of whom has registered to purchase. They (the treasury) began the process of cutting out the middle man (Wall St Broker-Dealers) quite some time ago. The Chinese were the first central bank to be registered, but it's not as though they have some green money phone that they pick up to call Jack Lew to buy bonds direct. They submit noncompetitive tenders just like everyone else on earth. This is the problem with media outlets when they want to make a story more sensational than it need be. They strike fear into people that the Chinese are buying up America when they're in fact buying a bond in the same manner that a dentist from Tampico, Illinois does. I love Forbes (who originally ran that "news"). I've subscribed for years. But stuff like this is the financial equivalent of the "thirty round magazine clip."
    Last edited by _Stormin_; 01-22-14 at 23:28.

  3. #153
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    Would you trust a Chinese company making your parachute if you had to jump out of a plane with it? I sure as hell wouldn't. Similarly, I wouldn't trust any Chinese AR or AR with Chinese components unless that company established a firm track record and then some more. Yes, I have a Polytech that I trust, but the overall Chinese manufacturing reputation sucks. Plain and simple.

    Also, Chinese companies have been known to cut corners and substitute cheap things and sell them off as higher quality more expensive products fraudulently. It happens all the time in China. Corrupt officials and construction companies are building and have built more skyscrapers all over China than probably anywhere in the world in the last ten years. Most of those buildings were built with sub par materials where officials got huge kickbacks and syphoned tons of money away and into their private bank accounts outside of China into Swiss Bank accounts etc. Corruption there is beyond belief. Food merchants have substituted unsanitary products, oils etc into food products and caused many deaths. You guys want to buy AR products from merchants with that kind of ethics? I sure don't. I'll pay the extra and stick to Colt and BCM. One extra thing I'd add is that the privileged and wealthy in China now is insanely rich and snooty as well. They despise Chinese products and Chinese knockoffs and don't trust
    them either. You'll find them with expensive European goods and automobiles that they bought with
    corruption money.

    Also, Dr Glockster is right. The Chinese are NOT our Allies. Believe me. The Chinese government is spending craploads on military development and research. Most of the development is directly in opposition to our military capabilities. They have also found many other ways to undermine us. Heck, they've bought big chunks of our country already. I wouldn't be surprised if they have bought huge parts of our government and influenced elections to a large extent with all the money and wealth their government has now. Maybe they've figured out that the best way to hurt America is to just to get the worst possible leaders elected, promote the criminals and bottom feeders to reproduce the most, destroy traditional American culture, and then maybe America will just self destruct?
    Last edited by FChen17213; 01-22-14 at 23:56.

  4. #154
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    When I was in Iraq we had hundreds of Chinese Type 56 and 56-1 rifles. Many of them were probably 20+ years old and they held up as good as any other AK. But, we aren't talking about AK's, we are talking AR's and there are obviously differences. I agree that consistency and QC would be a major issue.

    Of course, it's all academic as I don't think we will see them in this country.



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  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Stormin_ View Post
    I didn't need to contradict a damn thing, your information is incomplete. Since October 2012 EVERY nation, central bank, bank, family, individual with access to a computer and half decent knowledge to fill out a form online, etc, can and does buy bonds directly from the US Treasury. There is no list because I simply do not know of whom has registered to purchase. They (the treasury) began the process of cutting out the middle man (Wall St Broker-Dealers) quite some time ago. The Chinese were the first central bank to be registered, but it's not as though they have some green money phone that they pick up to call Jack Lew to buy bonds direct. They submit noncompetitive tenders just like everyone else on earth. This is the problem with media outlets when they want to make a story more sensational than it need be. They strike fear into people that the Chinese are buying up America when they're in fact buying a bond in the same manner that a dentist from Tampico, Illinois does. I love Forbes (who originally ran that "news"). I've subscribed for years. But stuff like this is the financial equivalent of the "thirty round magazine clip."
    Gotcha, I could not find any official or unofficial info indicating that foreign central banks could bypass government approved bank dealer/bidders, except for China. I guess I just have to take your word for it.

    I don't think the Chinese would be interested in developing the legal environment in the U.S in order to sell weapons. As many have mentioned. The profit margin just isn't there.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    Of course, it's all academic as I don't think we will see them in this country.
    If there was a way for Obama to get them to the Mexican Cartels through AZ dealers, we'd see a lot of them.
    "You people have too much time on your hands." - scottryan

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    If there was a way for Obama to get them to the Mexican Cartels through AZ dealers, we'd see a lot of them.
    Much easier to get them to cartels through weapon sales to places like Columbia.

  8. #158
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    Not buying anything Chinese specially when they are just starting....

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by AR95 View Post
    Not buying anything Chinese specially when they are just starting....
    "Just starting" is a bit of a misnomer. The tech isn't exactly new, and the Chinese have been making firearms since the 14th century (they are the ones credited with the discovery of gunpowder)... The biggest worry is metallurgy and a lack of QC. Hell, there are American mfgs that are avoided for those exact same reasons.
    "SEND IT" happens to be my trigger words...

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chatterbox View Post
    Handle a Polytech AK and tell me it's not a quality product.

    MMC AR-15s are going for $500. PTAC AR-15s are at $420 plus assembly of the lower ($25 at ADCO, if you can't do it yourself). I'm not sure how much lower AR-15s Chinese can go for.
    Have you actually seen a Full PTAC AR build? (All PTAC branded parts), I have done four of these $450.00 PTAC builds, one which was mine and three for friends and I have to say with all honesty that a Chinese manufactured AR might be a better quality gun at the moment. PTAC branded items are some rough looking pieces and while the jury is still out opinion wise while I'm trying to deal with PSA about some of the Q/C issues of the PTAC parts I received I could not in good faith recommend PTAC branded items to anyone.
    Last edited by PA PATRIOT; 01-24-14 at 13:33.
    We are all inclined to judge ourselves by our ideals; others, by their acts.

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