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Thread: 2014: Year of the Chinese AR?

  1. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by drdremel View Post
    Norinco already makes a Chinese AR and they sell it in Canada. They have been doing this for years.
    You beat me to it. This isn't a hypothetical.

  2. #172
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    If the Chinese make an AR, that is priced $1 less than everyone else, they will sell like hotcakes in California. Have a look at the Calguns site, whatever is cheapest is deemed best in that state. PSA is better than Colt from what I read...

  3. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by hatidua View Post
    If the Chinese make an AR, that is priced $1 less than everyone else, they will sell like hotcakes in California. Have a look at the Calguns site, whatever is cheapest is deemed best in that state. PSA is better than Colt from what I read...

    That made me laugh.

  4. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by hatidua View Post
    If the Chinese make an AR, that is priced $1 less than everyone else, they will sell like hotcakes in California. Have a look at the Calguns site, whatever is cheapest is deemed best in that state. PSA is better than Colt from what I read...
    All PSA puts out that is equal to Colt is Premium /CHF barreled uppers and Receivers and LPK's. The BCG, RE is still Colts. Canadians apparently think Chinese AR's are ok.
    Last edited by quaesitor logica; 01-27-14 at 22:28.

  5. #175
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    I think SIG USA has been putting Chinese made parts in their guns ever since Cohen started running it.

  6. #176
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    Thank you Mods for letting me join this forum.

    My first post.

    I've lived in China for over 10 years. What I want to say is that whether it is nationalism or whatever reason you have for being distrustful of Chinese-made products, you should continue to do so until proven otherwise.

    Chinese companies are set up for one thing and one thing only: to make a profit.

    Chinese businessmen do not see themselves as friends or enemies of the US. Whatever they do usually has nothing to do with politics or any other more agendas. Don't give them so much credit. It's just about money. The more unscrupulous ones will put poisonous substitutes into infant formulas to poison Chinese infants if it helps make a profit. There's no political agenda there.

    Cutting corners has helped keep many struggling businesses stay alive and turned many people into overnight billionaires and there's little incentive to change. First, a Chinese company has to fight another equally competitive Chinese company by undercutting each other domestically. The survivor will be the one to expand and then compete with foreign companies on the world stage by undercutting these foreign companies.

    There is a Chinese businessman famously saying: "We're not afraid of foreign competitors, we're only afraid of competition from other Chinese companies." He also went on to say that the way they work is to price so low, that they conquer the market by making the competitor go bust. Then, after they've conquered the market, they can raise the price a little to recover the initial losses.

    China is well capable of producing very high quality products. But in China, and increasingly the rest of the world, this puts you in the "niche" category. And this means you remain small. Chinese businesses has no interest in being niche. They want to be giants.

    Some people here put forth the argument that China makes Apple products, so China-made firearms must/can also be good, I don't agree. China doesn't make Apple products - Apple, makes Apple products. The factory for the parts just happen to be in China. Apple also has factories in SE Asian countries like Malaysia and Thailand IIRC. But that doesn't mean domestic Thai and Malaysian brands are capable of producing an equivalent product by themselves.

    As one gentleman on this forum rightly said, we are talking about firearms, not electronic products. The two can't be further apart in terms of manufacturing process. Firearms still require metallurgy skills and hand craftsmanship that so far, China manufacturing has been neglecting.

    Eventually, China will turn the corner and start making more and more quality products over mass produced cheap junk, like Japan, Korea and Hong Kong eventually did. But that day hasn't arrived yet. In some instances now and in the past, Chinese made goods can be of good quality, but usually they are made to be thrown away after a few years.

  7. #177
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    I work in the advertising industry and one time we were working for a local partner of the joint venture with a world-famous German auto brand. This was sometime around 2006 - 2007.

    They were making a new model of the for the Chinese market. The boss proudly told us that this car will be made using 80% imported steel (mainly Jap) because Chinese steel is too soft.

    The reason is not because China cannot produce very hard steel. It is simply because the domestic demand for lower quality steel is way higher because it is cheaper.

    So go figure, WRT Chinese firearms steel.

    For further reference if you can find the story of Vespa Scooters' failure in China, you'll understand the mindset of Chinese businesses and consumers. Essentially, Vespa made good quality scooters in China. But they were expensive, most can't afford them. Those who did buy them, found that they were expensive to maintain. And half the time if you lived in the countryside you couldn't find anyone to repair anything anyway. So it made sense to buy something cheap, ride it using duct tape (I'm not kidding) to hold it together until it falls apart. Then throw it away and buy a new one. Everybody like new things in China. There's no pride in using something that's very old and still working.

  8. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chino65 View Post
    There is a Chinese businessman famously saying: "We're not afraid of foreign competitors, we're only afraid of competition from other Chinese companies." He also went on to say that the way they work is to price so low, that they conquer the market by making the competitor go bust. Then, after they've conquered the market, they can raise the price a little to recover the initial losses.
    Sounds like a page right out of a number of America's mega corps.... *coughwalmartcough*

  9. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chino65 View Post
    Thank you Mods for letting me join this forum.

    My first post.

    Chinese companies are set up for one thing and one thing only: to make a profit.

    Chinese businessmen do not see themselves as friends or enemies of the US. Whatever they do usually has nothing to do with politics or any other more agendas. Don't give them so much credit. It's just about money. There's no political agenda there.
    There are plenty of "American" businessmen that are the same. Not very patriotic to the American flag.

    Welcome Chino65.

    Looking forward to your opinions on weapons, laws, & politics from your side of the world. (i.e. Chinese/Singapore private gun ownership, opinions on the QBZ95 & SAR21 & even the M16 family, Obama, etc.)

  10. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoringGuy45 View Post
    I disagree. If we're assuming that the most common AR owner is a highly dedicated shooter who takes classes and trains regularly, has an almost encyclopedic knowledge of ever part of the gun down to the amount of atoms in each detent, and is always willing to spend just a little more to get the best stuff available, then there's no way these guns would crack the market. But the truth is, the vast, vast majority of gun owners buy cheap and cheap only because their guns are only going to be on the range for about a 100 round session and then cleaned and back in the safe. Generally speaking, rifles like Bushmaster, DPMS, Olympic, etc, do just fine for this application and can usually take much abuse than even that. As a result, they appear reliable enough and thus the consensus among the lay-gun owner is that with Colt, LMT, Daniel Defense, etc, you're just paying for a name.

    In the store where I work, we mostly have mid to higher end ARs (Colt, BCM, DD, an occasional Noveske if we can get one) but we also have quite a few Bushmasters, Stags, and Windham Arms. Even though the Colt LE6920 is only $100 more than the Bushmaster, guess which one sells every time, even though we try and steer people to the better brand? 9 times out of 10, the first question from potential AR buyers is, word for word, "What's the cheapest AR you have?" After I show them a Stag, Bushy, DPMS, or whatever, the next question is, "Are you sure you don't have anything cheaper?" Not many people are looking for rifles to take to a class or even home defense. They want a range toy or safe queen. If these Chinese ARs fall into the "anything cheaper" category, they'll sell like hotcakes.
    you hit the nail on the head. most folks on other forums i venture into are worried about cost, i can't tell you how many threads i see about del-ton, dpms, ptac (psa) is better than dd, bcm. colt all you are paying for is the name....they aren't going to get off the bench, they aren't going to take classes or run it hard. so that will work for them. and they think after 500 rounds with no hiccups that it's the greatest thing since sliced cheese. i don't even try to help em anymore. and don't get me started on when they ask which upper to get and people recommend the gold standards and folks will chime in with get a PSA. PSA is great for ammo...and that's pretty much it.
    don't even try to take my weapons away from me and my peoples...

    this is why i joined this forum...http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=503481
    http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=503240

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