Business ethics: Scenarios and your responses.

[_Stormin_]

So how do you resolve the situation? Fire both of them?

Why would I fire the employee reporting the lie. If it turns out that she lied to him and not the company, she's still the only one that did anything dishonest. The employee who came to me with the information was simply being honest. The info he provided would be checked vs the university office BEFORE speaking to the employee who said her education was bogus. Approaching someone about a verifiable piece of info before ACTUALLY verifying it is more congressional policy than my policy.

But thanks to employer requirements forcing more and more "educated" employees... a BA is neither a guarantee of competence nor education.

It's not, but it was still required for the position. This isn't a "grey area" it's pretty clear.

[Honu]

not if you said
this is what she told me ? no idea if she is trying to bait me or not but thought I would report it ?

if she did graduate and baited me then she is a liar and trying to stir up the workers by telling lies

if she did not she was a liar !

either way in your scenario she proves she is a liar

The person in S2 could be baiting you with false information. You report her, and then she trumps the accusation with definitive proof of her transcript. Boom! Now you look like a liar and scumbag.

[tb-av]

This is the problem I have with scenario #2.

It implies that you would not mention that said employee lied on her resume unless you know it will guarantee you a promotion.

I want to be chosen because I am the best candidate for the job based on my skills and abilities, not because I was able to find something wrong with one of my competitors and thereby be the only option left.

You would not be a finalist for the job if that were the only reason you were in play.

Finalist
You - Ethical
Other person - Deceptive liar

All else is equal.

It's quite possible that neither of you have anything else to offer. That you are being promoted into a position of being taught new material and skills.

All you have to say is that she confided in you that she has no degree and you would hate to lose to her if it's true and that your skills are otherwise equal.

It's a no brainer. They have reached a coin toss moment. It would be unethical for you to allow her to achieve the promotion without telling them so they could research the validity of her statement.

IOW... you need to tell them whether you win or loose. that part about "guarantee you the job" is to throw you off the "ethics" trail.

The issue is Employer requires BA and you have recent knowledge that a worker has no BA. While it may seem odd in your context, what is happening is that the person that does right wins AND corrects the integrity of the company which had been compromised through some means by your competition.

[Alaskapopo]

So how do you resolve the situation? Fire both of them?



No, you're right, it's not unethical.

But thanks to employer requirements forcing more and more "educated" employees... a BA is neither a guarantee of competence nor education.

First off the main issue here is honesty. Rather you think a having a college education is worthwhile or not. Liars are not to be trusted. Secondly as to the education yes having a BA does show someone has a certain level of education. That is exactly what a degree signifies and like it or not having a BA is starting to become the new standard for many jobs much like a high school diploma was in the past.
Pat

[Crow Hunter]

You would not be a finalist for the job if that were the only reason you were in play.

Finalist
You - Ethical
Other person - Deceptive liar

All else is equal.

It's quite possible that neither of you have anything else to offer. That you are being promoted into a position of being taught new material and skills.

All you have to say is that she confided in you that she has no degree and you would hate to lose to her if it's true and that your skills are otherwise equal.

It's a no brainer. They have reached a coin toss moment. It would be unethical for you to allow her to achieve the promotion without telling them so they could research the validity of her statement.

IOW... you need to tell them whether you win or loose. that part about "guarantee you the job" is to throw you off the "ethics" trail.

The issue is Employer requires BA and you have recent knowledge that a worker has no BA. While it may seem odd in your context, what is happening is that the person that does right wins AND corrects the integrity of the company which had been compromised through some means by your competition.

I didn't interpret the scenario the way you did.

The way I read it, she has confided (defined as told someone a secret trusting them not to repeat it to others) in me some time ago. Something that I have known for a while but I have chosen not to mention and the only reason I would be reporting it now would be to gain an advantage in an interview.

If the question had been. "You recently found out that someone you worked with lied on their resume should you report it?" Then, I would likely report it if directly asked about the qualifications of said employee because I won't lie to cover for someone else, or if I felt that it could compromise the integrity of the company/department.

That being said, my personal feelings are that if a person can do the job and they are doing a good job at it and they can "live with the lie", I am not going to be the one to "out" them. Particularly if I was asked to keep a secret and I agreed. It isn't part of my responsibilty to the company to do background checks/employment verifications/pry into the personal history of my fellow employees since as it has been mentioned before, I wouldn't know for sure unless I did a background check on that employee. If the company chose not to do that, even though they had a "requirement" that an employee has a degree, that is on them. The other part of this is if she "confided" in me I don't "tattle".

I, would however, put that person on my don't trust list.

[tb-av]

In these kinds of questions we are not supposed to create scenarios ( even though we all have to present a point ).

Scenario 2:

Another employee on the same level you are (that is, not someone you report to or supervise) confides in you that she never did actually graduate from college, although she claimed to have a BA from a respected university on her resume(she did attend, just never graduated).

OK... thee is no time frame mentioned. Could have been yesterday, could have been 5 years ago. You now have information that may or may not be true. If true it violates your employers code which he has the right to define. That's pretty much the end of that story. It is what it is. You have been -told without proof- that you know a secret that violates company policy.

This person has been on the job as long as you have. She is good at what she does, and while she’s not really a friend, she’s friendly and has worked well on teams you both have been on.

This is all pretty much irrelevant.

You are both being considered for a manager position. Only one of you will be promoted. The company regards misinformation on a resume as grounds for termination.

There is nothing in this statement that indicates you should have known about the termination due to false resume. Maybe they made the rule yesterday. Maybe they made it 10 years ago. Maybe they only become concerned with employees knowing this once they are considered for a management position and now you are being made aware. We have no way of knowing..... All we do know is that as of this instant in time you do indeed know...... regarding this dilemma... the "what we all knew in the past" has not been addressed. The "what we all know right this minute" is clear

Is it ethical to tell upper management that she lied on her resume, when you know it will guarantee you the promotion?

Now when you answer that question if you consider the past you will be manufacturing information to support your decision. that is not the question. The question is take the information you are given, while not exhaustive or even totally clear, deals only with the present.

Remember you have the option to say. She confided in me that she has no BA.

Boss: wow, we checked and you are right. thank you.. you get the job.

At this point you have the job and have satisfied the scenario.

You: Well, I'm afraid I have to decline, because the fact is I have known for years and didn't feel it was my place to speak up.

Boss: Oh, I see ... which means that promotion may be short lived. So at the end of the day you got exactly what you wanted. A position based solely on your abilities and actions.

So the answer is Yes... and the answer about turning yourself in if you have supported her lie is also Yes.

Ethics are not about what you get for your good deeds. They are usually about you not getting something today such that something can't be taken from you tomorrow.

[MountainRaven]

First off the main issue here is honesty. Rather you think a having a college education is worthwhile or not. Liars are not to be trusted. Secondly as to the education yes having a BA does show someone has a certain level of education. That is exactly what a degree signifies and like it or not having a BA is starting to become the new standard for many jobs much like a high school diploma was in the past.
Pat

Everybody lies.

And a BA's value is as a stepping stone to a Master's, a law degree, or some other doctorate. Beyond that... it's practically worthless.

As a highly educated police officer, I would expect that you'd know that.

[Alaskapopo]

Everybody lies.

And a BA's value is as a stepping stone to a Master's, a law degree, or some other doctorate. Beyond that... it's practically worthless.

As a highly educated police officer, I would expect that you'd know that.

We have a difference of opinion. In my field lying will end your career and I value honesty in my friends as well. Someone is only as good as their word. The officers I have been directly involved in their termination was due to lying. Your conscience should be your guide. If it feels wrong it probably is. If you have to come up with elaborate justifications as to why what your doing is not really wrong or that bad its probably very wrong. That kind of stuff eats me up personally so I have found its better just to tell the truth and take your lumps. I understand it is hard to turn someone in. But if they find out later that you knew your job may be in jeopardy and at the very least your boss will not trust you.

As for the BA its a valuable degree for many entry level jobs. We can argue all day long about rather you think someone with a BA or without is going to be a better employee. What will not change however is that more and more employers are expecting you to have a BA or a BS just to get hired like having a high school diploma was required in the old days. For me it has made a difference. It has helped me score better on promotion exams, get more points for being hired etc. Also if I want to be a chief someday its pretty much required for even small down chiefs. Large city chiefs need masters degrees. I am not trying to be an education snob and I don't think less of people that don't have degrees. But you have to be aware of the world we live in and having a BA will get you further than not having one.
Pat

[tb-av]

@Fjallhrafn if the scenarios don't suit your morals that is fine but concerning ethics there is an expectation or requirement of a certain promise to do right.

For instance if you think cows are sacred but work for a steak house that has high ethics regarding the feeding, slaughtering, aging, cooking and serving.

You could bitch and moan all day long that they should just serve vegetarian food. At the same time though, you could abide by the ethical standards they have set for every person that decides to eat there with regards to the quality and service of the food.

Ethics are for groups and they are provided for public trust or the trust of another group. Morals are for your own personal life. If you didn't know these three questions were part of some ethics training then S1 and S3 really fall more under morals. While S2 clearly states the company has a standard regarding the lying on the resume... You can think the BA deal is morally wrong but uphold the company ethics by upholding the "no lies" policy.

The boss man never said you have to have a BA ( we got off track on that... that was never a requirement for the job ). He said if you don't have a BA, you can't lie about it on the resume. The scenario even said she went to school but she just never graduated. It's not what she lacks in paper... it's what she lacks in honesty. She lacked the willingness to abide by company rules and regulations.

[SteyrAUG]

Scenario 1: I'd report the problem up the chain of command so they are aware of it. Most food review websites permit rebuttals so I'd address them as best I could, hopefully with a statement from upper management. On my own time I'd track them down based upon their online eating habits and **** over their cars while they are shaking down the next guy. Good luck figuring out who did it.

Scenario 2: On the face of it, you earned it and she didn't. You paid the money and did the work. That said, it's gonna come down to how I judge her as a person and what kind of person I want to be. I can imagine scenarios where I let somebody get ahead because I value things differently than many others. But if she ever crossed me in the past I'd sink her battleship without remorse.

Scenario 3: I would do my job as instructed making sure to not make any promises or get any of the candidates needlessly hopeful in order to satisfy the requirements of my position. Then I'd update my resume and do everything possible to abandon ship to a company with a little more credibility. If they can do it to them, they will eventually do it to me.



We all know how the world works, life isn't fair and connections beat ability every time. So each and every one of us has to find that balance between rewards of the job and what we are willing to do for it. I found early on I had a low threshold for compromising my values simply for money. As a result there are a lot of people with a lot more money than I have and I have had to go without this or that in the past.

And while at times it's been rough, even trying to budget food at points in my past, the only thing worse would have been being a well paid defense attorney for scumbags.