VIDEO: Oregon State Police Shooting

[lunchbox]

Whoa.. that is scary. That dude had your not so average ganbanger pistol control and movement it seemed like. Even though I know the movies are fake, its so ingrained in me to assume that a bullet to the chest would stop someone; clearly actions do not stop. Glad officer is OK and trash was taken out.

I read the comments posted for vid and one said that he was in the reserves. Not sayin he had great moves, but he was more than run of the mill banger.EDIT from vid comments "This incident happened on Aug. 29, 2013 on I84 in Oregon near Portland. The shooter, John Van Allen, 34, had three of his children in the car with him. He was headed back to his home in S.C.. He served in the U.S. Army Reserve as a construction engineer from 2009 until 2012"

[Renegade]

Not playing games here but what do you think he could have done?

Thanks

You get one chance to show me your hands, and then the gun comes out. Granted this MMQB and I knew a shooting was going to happen, but as I watched the video I could not help notice he obviously was hiding his hand behind his back. Of course the LEO may have had his gun out just like I said.

[Redhat]

You get one chance to show me your hands, and then the gun comes out. Granted this MMQB and I knew a shooting was going to happen, but as I watched the video I could not help notice he obviously was hiding his hand behind his back. Of course the LEO may have had his gun out just like I said.

Noodles. Uh, dude got out of the car not showing his hands... That's a pretty clear indication for me to stop asking anything of the guy. I mean, I'm not a cop, but I know you are not supposed to do that. If I did that, I'd expect the cop to be ready to pull the trigger, now if the dude starts walking towards me, nope, it's over.

First, are you a LEO? If so, you're telling me you can use deadly force because someone won't show you their hands?

[Renegade]

First, are you a LEO? If so, you're telling me you can use deadly force because someone won't show you their hands?

I said gun comes out, how do you infer start shooting from that?

[Redhat]

I said gun comes out, how do you infer start shooting from that?

...okay and then...?

[trinydex]

...okay and then...?

action is faster than reaction. guy doesn't comply with a peaceible show of hands, then the gun comes out. if there's compliance then the gun can be reholstered. if there's an escalation then the officer saves at least 1.5 seconds drawing. 1.5 seconds is a long time considering most shootings are done within 7 seconds.

[TAZ]

Glad the officer got out alive and without serious injury. Glad the POS is dead and his kids didn't get lit up accidentally.

The LEO could have ramped up the response faster, although we have no way of knowing what he was doing as we can only hear him issuing verbal commands. Unfortunately, LEO and CCW people are always going to be playing catch up. We can't draw down on people not posing a threat. The POS could just as easily reached for a wallet instead of a gun trying to make a civil rights point or whatever. It's a sad thing, but in all honesty probably the correct stance as these events are still a minority. We can't have people pointing guns at each other because someone didn't follow commands fast enough. That's how accidents happen and innocent people get killed.

On a more tinfoil look... WTF is up with these reservists??

[trinydex]

Glad the officer got out alive and without serious injury. Glad the POS is dead and his kids didn't get lit up accidentally.

The LEO could have ramped up the response faster, although we have no way of knowing what he was doing as we can only hear him issuing verbal commands. Unfortunately, LEO and CCW people are always going to be playing catch up. We can't draw down on people not posing a threat. The POS could just as easily reached for a wallet instead of a gun trying to make a civil rights point or whatever. It's a sad thing, but in all honesty probably the correct stance as these events are still a minority. We can't have people pointing guns at each other because someone didn't follow commands fast enough. That's how accidents happen and innocent people get killed.

On a more tinfoil look... WTF is up with these reservists??

i don't want to monday morning quarterback, but i do want to play devil's advocate.

just a comment: that guy's presassult indicators were pretty glowing. posture, stance, nonverbals, he was looking high and low and itching for a fight.

for those who have read lone survivor, american law enforcement face the same situation that is detailed in that book and that situation is essentially blamed for the outcome of those who were lost. i don't think anyone except those privvy to the decision should be able to say anything about it, but i will say that the media and the general public of the united states are constantly waiting to skewer law enforcement who kill in the line of duty.

the fear of that public/media backlash and the other negative outcomes is what causes hesitation. imagine the mind**** that happens when in the middle of a gunfight, all an officer can think of is the amount of paperwork he will have to do or the personal, social, and professional difficulties that will arise in the next two years and beyond because he's used his firearm. that creates hesitation.

also in general, law enforcement personnel are taught or seek to protect and there may be a disconnect between the sentiment of killing and the sentiment of protecting in the philosophy of many people nad that may also create hesitation.

in any case, this makes for very difficult decisions under stress and the american public is not blameless for it.

[Noodles]

action is faster than reaction. guy doesn't comply with a peaceible show of hands, then the gun comes out. if there's compliance then the gun can be reholstered. if there's an escalation then the officer saves at least 1.5 seconds drawing. 1.5 seconds is a long time considering most shootings are done within 7 seconds.

This.

To TAZ who wrote there is was no clear indication of threat....

Out of the car at a traffic stop + no hands + won't respond to commands == THREAT.

[Redhat]

This.

To TAZ who wrote there is was no clear indication of threat....

Out of the car at a traffic stop + no hands + won't respond to commands == THREAT.

Again...are you a LEO? Do you know the UoF continuum for this officer's dept? I am genuinely interested.

Thanks