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Thread: Why do mfgs still make carbine length gas systems?

  1. #151
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    And since it's been a few pages, I'll just reiterate that I don't think the midlength system actually really achieves this effect of reducing impact force... I'm just applying the theory to the topic of the thread.

  2. #152
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    Impact force is energy being transferred from one object to another or changing direction. It comes from two objects colliding including a rapid expansion such as you get when gunpowder is ignited in a combustion chamber. How that energy is managed and used determines the profile of the impact force which in turn, determines how it's perceived or felt by the shooter.

    Just because it's rocket science, doesn't mean it's complicated
    INSIDE PLAN OF BOX
    1. ROAD-RUNNER LIFTS GLASS OF WATER- PULLING UP MATCH
    2. MATCH SCRATCHES ON MATCH-BOX
    3. MATCH LIGHTS FUSE TO TNT
    4. BOOM!
    5. HA-HA!!

    -WILE E. COYOTE, AUTHOR OF "EVERYTHING I NEEDED TO KNOW IN LIFE, I LEARNED FROM GOLDBERG & MURPHY"

    http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_0114.jpg
    I am American

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    Impact force is energy being transferred from one object to another or changing direction. It comes from two objects colliding including a rapid expansion such as you get when gunpowder is ignited in a combustion chamber. How that energy is managed and used determines the profile of the impact force which in turn, determines how it's perceived or felt by the shooter.

    Just because it's rocket science, doesn't mean it's complicated
    Well, I think you could describe force as a simple transference of energy... energy source puts a mass into motion at a certain velocity, and this becomes the objects force.

    F=(ma)

    Force is very easy to calculate, because, as you say, it's really nothing more than transferring energy. With the above, we know exactly how much force a bullet has behind it- overly simplified, Force=(55grains x 3,300fps)

    Uncomplicated rocket science, as you say.

    But how can you calculate how much impact force is imparted to an object struck by the bullet? The impact force depends on a ton of additional variables- the force of the bullet, plus the density and flexibility of the billet, the density and flexibility of the object it strikes, the weight of the object it strikes, whether or not the object it strikes is affixed to additional mass, the velocity of the object it strikes (stationary? moving? nothing in the cosmos is "stationary," in physics and cosmology), the frictional coefficient of objects it's in contact with, including air, or other medium, etc, etc. It's so complicated to calculate that you definitely could not calculate the impact force without knowing positively each one of these variables. The formulas I've seen for the different kinds of impact force calculations are absurdly complicated.... it's rocket science, and it's complicated.
    Last edited by Dead Man; 10-20-13 at 17:28.

  4. #154
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    The use of the term impact force in this discussion is a bit of a misnomer as it can't be calculated. There is no impact to measure...

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK18Pilot View Post
    The use of the term impact force in this discussion is a bit of a misnomer as it can't be calculated. There is no impact to measure...
    Do you mean by us, in this context? Or do you mean to say that impact force can never be calculated?

    In our context, none of us are likely to put a lab together and do a study. But impact force most definitely can be calculated, and is, frequently, by those who study it professionally.

    Here are some basic examples - http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/im...ce-d_1780.html

  6. #156
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    But "felt recoil" is, all by itself, a measurement of impact force. Subjective, yes- however, not only relevant, but to the point.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dead Man View Post
    ...how much impact force is imparted to an object struck by the bullet?...
    What you're talking about is terminal ballistics. Calculating the impact on a known medium, such as ballistic gel, can be done. But there are too many variables in living tissue, as you point out, to calculate the results. At best, we make a guess, based on previous experience or maybe the laws of chaos
    INSIDE PLAN OF BOX
    1. ROAD-RUNNER LIFTS GLASS OF WATER- PULLING UP MATCH
    2. MATCH SCRATCHES ON MATCH-BOX
    3. MATCH LIGHTS FUSE TO TNT
    4. BOOM!
    5. HA-HA!!

    -WILE E. COYOTE, AUTHOR OF "EVERYTHING I NEEDED TO KNOW IN LIFE, I LEARNED FROM GOLDBERG & MURPHY"

    http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_0114.jpg
    I am American

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    What you're talking about is terminal ballistics. Calculating the impact on a known medium, such as ballistic gel, can be done. But there are too many variables in living tissue, as you point out, to calculate the results. At best, we make a guess, based on previous experience or maybe the laws of chaos
    Impact force is a component of the several disciplines involved in terminal ballistics, but I'm not talking ABOUT terminal ballistics.

  9. #159
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    I had my DD V1 & V5 out Saturday and was shooting American Eagle XM193. Shot a couple hundred rounds out of each and the V1 performed flawlessly, V5 had 2 failure to feeds (same mag, new 10 round Pmag I was using to shoot from the bench to zero my Accupoint in). Now could this be a mag related failure to feed, middy not cycling with enough authority or a combination? I've been thinking about it and perhaps there is something to be said for the Carbine cycling with a little more authority.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dead Man View Post
    Do you mean by us, in this context?
    It can't be measured by us. If I throw a baseball at the side of an aluminum shed, the baseball colliding with the shed will leave a measurable impact and allow us to calculate impact force. I'm guessing the elastic nature of the bumper on the buffer assembly is going to make this calculation extremely complicated.

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