Which Barrel Maker for .308 Bolt Gun?

[kevN]

I had 110's sub-moa before. I think it has more to do with the chamber and how you're loading them than it has to do with the twist rate. I didn't spend a lot of time on it though. I tried 110's out of a factory 1:12 sps varmint, and it was horribad. Same load from a benchmark 26" 1:10 was 1/2 moa.

As I said, I spent very little time on the 110's though. Not much experience with them.

I agree, I don't think 1:10 is going to "overspin" anything. It will however make a bigger difference if your dope is not calculated with spin drift enabled

[T2C]

I had 110's sub-moa before. I think it has more to do with the chamber and how you're loading them than it has to do with the twist rate. I didn't spend a lot of time on it though. I tried 110's out of a factory 1:12 sps varmint, and it was horribad. Same load from a benchmark 26" 1:10 was 1/2 moa.

As I said, I spent very little time on the 110's though. Not much experience with them.

Thanks for the reply.

I have shot 10 shot groups well under 1 MOA at 300 yards with Hornady 155g factory ammunition. I was surprised that a lighter load would do so well out of my 1:10 barreled Savage.

A local rifle shooter gave me a recipe for a 125g load that will shoot under MOA out of his Remington 700 at 600 yards. He said that the load will shoot under 1-1/4 MOA out of his Savage 10FCP. A 125g load shooting under 1-1/4 MOA out of a fast twist barrel is impressive.

[opsoff1]

I couldn't help but chime in here as the discussion on bbl mfr's and twists is always an interesting and lively discussion.
That being said, there are some very valid points in previous posts.
My opinion is very specifically that - an opinion. It is based on actual experience though. I have been shooting & smithing for 35 years and punched all the tickets - High Master, Presidents Hundred, Distinguished, Palma Twenty along with some national trophies. My game has been NM and tactical/precision LR.
I have had the good luck to use some outstanding barrels. I have also had the misfortune to shoot some dogs.
It is absoultely within reason that one can shoot any brand barrel and win with it. I have shot Hart, Douglas, Obermeyer, Krieger, Schnieder, Rocky Mountain, Lilja, Pac Nor, Rock & Noveske as well as others that I can't even remember. I have also shot OEM tubes from Savage, Winchester, Remington et al. Based on this and the literally tens of thousands of rounds that I have launched, I have learned some hard and fast truths.

1. Consistency - custom manufactureres offer astounding consistency. It's not 100%, but it is exponentially better than an OEM bbl. I have had OEM bbls that were stunningingly accurate - but they were the exception - not the norm. Other than one year where there was an issue with the lot of steel that Krieger got (IIRC - it was imported Jap steel) that was really soft - the bbls shot great - but were shot out within 5 or 600 rds, I have never had an issue with any of the custom bbls.

2. Maybe should be #1, but regardless - you get what you pay for. Buy a bargain bbl - get a bargain barrel.

3. Fitting - ill fit bbls, will never achieve their potential - ever.

4. Ammo vs bbl. ammuntion needs to be developed to take advantage of the inherent precision in a custom bbl. All to often, handloads are not developed correctly and accuracy is left on the loading bench.

My personal favorites are Kriegers and Obermeyers. They are the most consistent barrels I have shot - barrel to barrel to barrel on bolt guns as well as gas guns. I know exactly what I am getting. Now, the MOST accurate barrel I have ever shot?... a Rocky Mountain on a NM AR15 that was an absolute laser - never had another one that could get the X counts and tight groups that one did. I had a Badger bbl an a NM AR that I could not get to shoot to save my soul. It was a "broach cut" 1 in 8 and it was a shotgun past 500yds. I had to make a decison that I had wasted enough time / powder / bullets etc and it was relegated to a fun gun. I would have a fair amount of hesitation to go down that road again - this isn't a knock on Badger - maybe it was one that got through. I also have had 2 Obermeyer 5R (1/11.25) on an M-24 clone - both laser beams - they absolutely hammered 180 Sierra SMK's (old style 9 deg boat tail) at 1000. Same load.
The point is - what a portion of the price tag represents is consistency.
The custom bbls offer features that a discriminating shooter appreciates. These characteristics come to light when you are pushing the envelope for accuracy and range. If one is going to do nothing other than fool around at 100yds, then this stuff really doesn't matter. If you are a serious bench rester or a precision LR guy, then take note.
Twist rates are important - but buyer beware - sometimes, based on how the bbl was rifled, they are more of an approximation. Current manufacturing has allowed great precision and rates can be held to what was indicated. Single point cut rifled barrels are very accurate for twist rates. SOME button rifled bbls suffer slip and the twist rates are slower than advertised. There are all sorts of sub discussion on pull button rifling vs push button rifling. (Another day...) Case in point - a friend had a 1/8 on NM AR. Could not get 80 Sierras to shoot at all never mind 600yds. We ended up checking the twist rate and it was closer to 1 in 8.75 than 8; Too slow for an 80 and they wouldn't stabilize.
Button barrels generally have smoother finishes. Cut rifled barrels need to be lapped - this is where more of that price tag comes in.
Bore scopes don't lie - startling what the inside of a bore looks like.

I will second the comment earlier about chambering - absolutely CRITICAL for precison / accuracy. Especially the throating. There are a lot of methods and techniques as well as reamers. Put a big ol' sloppy SAAMI max spec chamber in a beautiful custom barrel and my money says ho-hum performer. Same same on crowning - which again reinforces the baseline here - smith work/fitting/threading/chambering/crowning/throating, all contribute to a system. Screw one up and well - proof is on the paper.

IMHO - stick with a custom name brand bbl mfr - Obermeyer, Bartlien, Krieger etc. Specify exactly what you want. Bore / groove dimension & type, twist, length and use an expert smith to finish it. Chambering is a whole other world as well - there are hundreds of variations on the .308 chamber. Everyone wants to tweak a dimension. Look at neck diameters - are you going to turn necks? If not - what brass? Tighter is not always better. I have .308 bolt guns that must have necks turned; one is a .333 neck - no way around it. Another has a .339 neck - it will swallow Lapua and WW but not Fed GM or LC brass. Know what you want and how you will use it - define your requirements and the choices become clearer.

[OrdnanceLocker]

You got lucky with your benchmark, congrats.

Enjoy your Barrels. I love a good value /bargain.

He didn't get lucky. Ron turns out GREAT barrels. They're heavily used by MANY match shooters up here and we consider them to be a well kept secret that's now becoming not so secret. Bartlien and Kreiger are great barrels, but if you think a Benchmark barrel can't hold its own with the big boys I would gladly invite you to attend a PRS match up here and shoot against a few of them then actually have an opinion on something based upon experience with that product and not some pompous opinion you got from the internet.

[Pappabear]

I have a Krieger barrel on my 300WM. I have another Bartlein and Krieger on stand by when my Remmy 5R's ( or my shooting partner) gun needs re barreled.

Let me say what has not been said.
Southern precision AKA bugholes has a good variety of barrels in stock.

My thought on barrels. If Remmy can mass produce 5R SS barrels that usually shoot MOA or better. Three of my four where sub MOA and my .223 5R is a .25 gun. One was a dog, that's your risk with mass produced, but I bet Remmy would have replaced had I not Kriegered it. Then any manufacture that hangs their hat on building just barrels, is probably going to make a remarkable barrel.
Krieger bartlein, rock, etc

PB's last point, the best barrels shoot more loads great. It shouldn't take 6 weeks to dial in a load.

PB out

[NV Ranger]

After reading the posts here, thank you to all who posted, I decided to go with a Lija in 1:10 with a custom palma contour to match the contour on my .223 gun. At this point I have to decide who is going to put my baby together. Having watched Ozzie's videos, Suarez Tactical, on YouTube I was going to go with him. Turns out he took down his gunsmithing shingle and retired. There's some local Las Vegas 'smiths who do work but I don't know how much they get into the detail of building an accurate gun.

[JWR075]

Krieger. They now hold the world record for smallest group on record, .0077" shot with a 30 Stewart (modified Grendel case). Also shows how accurate a 30 caliber can be on the 39mm (ppc, Grendel) case.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...-gun-and-ammo/

I honestly do not think you can go wrong with any of the major manufactures. I prefer Krieger, Shilen, Hart, and Bartlein and have one of each on some of my firearms.

[yellowfin]

I was just about to ask about Hart--did they somehow become unfashionable? I've watched a few guys who are a lot more talented than me do some amazing things with them. Same question about Pac Nor--is there something they do wrong now that they didn't previously?

[JWR075]

Nothing wrong with Hart, but people tend to jump on bandwagons when one maker becomes hot. Pac Nor, I am not sure about them, I have only got one barrel from them and had to return it because of a manufacturing defect (was not drilled or contoured straight).

[scatsob]

I think its pretty hard to go wrong with most barrel makers. I had a gun built with a McGowan barrel that shot the lights out and another with a Montana Rifle Company barrel that was sub .5MOA as well. These days its choose you poison and have fun.