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Thread: FBI is issuing Hobby Guns to Agents!!??!

  1. #91
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    I owned a Bushmaster 10 years ago and never had any problems with it. I shot thousands and thousands of rounds through it. That being said, I now own 2 Colts, and put a Spikes together for my wife. I have tightened several RRA entry barrel nuts, they use the YHM-style barrel nut and forend. Guys thought their forends were loose when it was in fact the nut itself that was loose. I've also seen buffer tubes on RRA and DPMS come loose during 3G matches. There are so many people who have firsthand knowledge of commercial rifles having major issues that it isn't really debatable or even questionable anymore. Can you make a commercial rifle run reliably? Sure. Will it end up costing more than to just buy a quality rifle the first time? Definitely.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgtrock82 View Post
    I don't blame you one bit. I don't know how much policy or management may have changed but it having happened before its not hard to imagine if Uncle Sam leaned on Colt theyd do the same kinds of things again.

    Totally agree.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by RogerinTPA View Post
    I've never heard anyone refer to LWRC as a military grade gun, except for themselves and uninformed fan boys. Many commercial grade AR manufactures also make that disingenuous claim, to include gun store sales clerks, but are not TDP spec'd guns, despite what their marketing department, hearsay or the errornet says. If you choose to believe that they are, good on you. FYI, MarkM is entitled to his opinion on anything he desires to post on...same as you, and no, I am not picking up a torch carried by anyone.
    Larry Vickers, Pat Rogers, and Jeff Gonzales are not what I would call "uninformed fanboys".

    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    One of our members here was using one for a while in A'stan and as I recall many of the guys were having issues.

    The DEA overseas teams using them would send them back to LWRC after arriving back in Quantico and LWRC would do some magic and then send them back. The field agents I spoke to told me that they were unaware what maintenance or parts were replaced, etc.. .
    Thank you for the substantive reply.

    The only things I have to add are that the SCAR has also had problems in A'stan, many of those initially issued M16s had problems with them in Vietnam, and even H&K had some crummy HK416s make it into the field.

    From what I understand, the way that LWRCi makes their guns, they are very difficult to service. (Hard-fit gas blocks and things like that.)
    " Nil desperandum - Never Despair. That is a motto for you and me. All are not dead; and where there is a spark of patriotic fire, we will rekindle it. "
    - Samuel Adams -

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fjallhrafn View Post
    Larry Vickers, Pat Rogers, and Jeff Gonzales are not what I would call "uninformed fanboys".



    Thank you for the substantive reply.

    The only things I have to add are that the SCAR has also had problems in A'stan, many of those initially issued M16s had problems with them in Vietnam, and even H&K had some crummy HK416s make it into the field.

    From what I understand, the way that LWRCi makes their guns, they are very difficult to service. (Hard-fit gas blocks and things like that.)
    Wow man, you're making it it sound like I cursed your mother or something. I've trained with all three and have much respect for them, and never insinuated that they were fan boys or that their opinions should be discounted. YOU are saying that I did. I simply stated that is was a commercial grade gun that is not built to a M4 TDP, not that it was not capable of being reliable. It's seems there is a rash of people getting extremely defensive over a difference of opinion. Not that I care, but do you even own one? You want to pray to the alter of LWRC guns, that's awesome, great, fantastic, good for you. FYI SCARs and HK416s are also not built to the M4 TDP, yet I'd own either over a LWRC, since they have both been vetted, refined, and used by our military down range. Have a great weekend bubba...and try not to get so emotional over a difference of opinion.
    For God and the soldier we adore, In time of danger, not before! The danger passed, and all things righted, God is forgotten and the soldier slighted." - Rudyard Kipling

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Cid View Post
    Help me understand... Are you saying rifles have no place in urban LE?
    The question I was responding to was "why are my rural LEOs so militarized." (Which I read as, "why do my rural LEOs need M4s, it's a peaceful sleepy place.")
    I would never argue against urban LEOs having the same small arms, just that rural LEOs have a higher likelyhood of their shots being at greater distances.

    I'm glad that we agree. Evidenced by the following comment in your reply:
    Quote Originally Posted by El Cid View Post
    Heck, some of the Indian country offices in the FBI now have LaRue .308's with Nightforce optics because of the vast expanses of terain.
    It's not "why shouldn't agency XYZ have it," but responding to "why does agency ABC have it?"

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamster37 View Post
    I've put 10,000 rounds through my entry tactical with no issues. How many of you have even owned a RRA or bushmaster?

    They are considered crap by forum commandos and those who generally don't shoot.
    Huzzah! You got the good one. Meanwhile, the countless posts of failures by knowledgable shop owners, instructors, and armorers must be nothing more than a bunch of forum commandos with tactiCOOL mousepads and ergonomic keyboards. :rollseyes:

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by RogerinTPA View Post
    Wow man, you're making it it sound like I cursed your mother or something. I've trained with all three and have much respect for them, and never insinuated that they were fan boys or that their opinions should be discounted. YOU are saying that I did. I simply stated that is was a commercial grade gun that is not built to a M4 TDP, not that it was not capable of being reliable. It's seems there is a rash of people getting extremely defensive over a difference of opinion. Not that I care, but do you even own one? You want to pray to the alter of LWRC guns, that's awesome, great, fantastic, good for you. FYI SCARs and HK416s are also not built to the M4 TDP, yet I'd own either over a LWRC, since they have both been vetted, refined, and used by our military down range. Have a great weekend bubba...and try not to get so emotional over a difference of opinion.
    There's no emotion on my end, "bubba." Only disbelief.

    You're right that LWRC guns aren't made to a TDP. But neither are the vast majority of the guns made by Colt, BCM, and DD. Neithe are KACs nor Noveskes. So, yeah, clearly the LWRC is inferior because, well, reasons and stuff.

    I asked you to back your statement shovelling LWRC's products into the same slop bucket as DPMS and Bushmaster and all you had was ignorance. When exposed, you have resorted to name-calling. Fantastic.

    And for the record, I do not currently own nor am I likely to ever own another LWRC product. But the ones I have owned (half a dozen or so) ran without problem. Same with those owned by two friends who have run thousands of rounds through theirs.

    I might pick up an HK416, if they ever stop with the stupidity and offer factory SBRs. Until then, if I need a piston AR, I cannot think of a better second best choice than an LWRC. Maybe I just need to get out more often, though.
    " Nil desperandum - Never Despair. That is a motto for you and me. All are not dead; and where there is a spark of patriotic fire, we will rekindle it. "
    - Samuel Adams -

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Cid View Post
    They are much better for 99% of them. Rifles are easier to shoot for a variety of reasons.
    This - plus, in my experience, most "non gun guy" officers perform better with theM-4 type rifle than the shotgun.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Stormin_ View Post
    How many 100 yard sight lines without potential collateral damage do you think exist in downtown Seattle?
    More than you think. You can find 100 yard sight lines inside some WalMarts, mall or large office buildings. Think parking lots, parking garages, city parks even diagonals along or accross some city streets. Plus cops, as a group, have the same bell curve of ability as any other group. Under field conditions, an NRA B-8 bullseye at 25 yards is a challenging target with a handgun, given the same target, same distance, you will see a much higher hit ratio with an M-4 than a pistol.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Stormin_ View Post
    This has actually been the subject of a few discussions here. Rural LEOs are in less dense environments and actually more likely to need to (and be able to) safely engage targets at longer distances. How many 100 yard sight lines without potential collateral damage do you think exist in downtown Seattle? What about 30 miles outside of Seattle in rural North Bend, WA in the foothills of the cascades?
    The justification for most LEO to get funding for carbines was to purchase equipment to respond to school shooting incidents.

    I conducted site surveys at area schools after the Columbine incident. Using my range finder I measured school hallways up to 130 yards long. An officer in an urban environment may have to take a 100 yard shot to deal with an active shooter.

    A carbine is more precise than a traditional police shotgun and easier to operate for most officers. Magazine capacity and faster follow up shots are easier for officers who have a limited interest in firearms which is a bonus. I want an officer to be armed with a better shoulder mounted weapon than the shotgun if they are going into a hostile environment to rescue school children.

    The M4 platform happened to fit the needs of LEO. Some people take issue with the fact that it is a military weapon.
    Last edited by T2C; 10-18-13 at 17:48.
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