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Thread: FBI is issuing Hobby Guns to Agents!!??!

  1. #21
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    As might be expected, the FBI and DEA tested several different rifles before giving the contract to Rock River Arms. While I don't know if RRA put particular effort into the rifles submitted for testing or if they had higher quality control in 2004, but they apparently did something right. If you ask, that is why there is an RRA carbine in the safe behind me. (I'm currently using a Colt as a patrol rifle.)

  2. #22
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    The decision was made by the top and not by end users. Ken Elmore talked about this in his armorer course years ago.

    In addition it is entirely possible that they paid particular attention to these guns when they put them together.

    Quote Originally Posted by jnc36rcpd View Post
    As might be expected, the FBI and DEA tested several different rifles before giving the contract to Rock River Arms. While I don't know if RRA put particular effort into the rifles submitted for testing or if they had higher quality control in 2004, but they apparently did something right. If you ask, that is why there is an RRA carbine in the safe behind me. (I'm currently using a Colt as a patrol rifle.)



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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DTakas View Post
    Even though I respect Colt now I still don't like them because of all that crap from way back then.

    But I understand RRA has quite a few "non-commercial" contracts, and I think bp7178 is right for as little as they will get used I don't' think they will be pushed to the point of failure.
    I disagree. You want these things to go bang when you need them. All things fail but somethings are easily avoidable by simply properly spec'ing out a weapon. A properly spec'd chamber being one that comes to mind at the moment.
    That said, I dont know what QC and QA RRA put into this particular contract to get it nor do I know what common issues RRA has. Simply touching on the general idea of lower tier weapons being fine for minimal use.

  4. #24
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    SWAT/HRT weapons are bought under a different program than street agent weapons. Not all M4's are RRA, but I suspect most are. Some are Colts, and some are Franken-guns (Colt lower with RRA upper and receiver extension). I seem to recall DEA choosing the RRA and the other agencies piggy backing on that contract but I could be wrong about that. Interesting to note DEA agents who purchase a privately owned rifle for duty use are going with LWRCi M6's. Not sure if RRA is even still an option for them.

    The RRA aren't what I'd consider a top choice, but they aren't the bottom of the barrel either. I think Pat Rogers calls them "5,000 round guns" or words to that effect because that's about the point where they start having issues and needing some work.

    The more worrisome issue in my eyes is the constant purchasing of the EOTech 512's which fail on a regular basis. I'd rather they save $150 and issue Aimpoint PRO's.

    Now for the really scary part... With the MP5's no longer being made in 10mm, they are being phased out through attrition. A few years ago some politician at HQ purchased a test batch of RRA M4 pattern carbines in 40S&W! Hopefully the new push to dump 40 and go to 9mm sidearm will derail any attempt to field 40 caliber carbines in any form. (As an aside the UMP40 failed the tests several years ago)
    Before you suggest that licensing, background checks, or other restrictions for the 2nd Amendment are reasonable... Apply those same ideas to the 1st and 4th Amendments. Then tell me how reasonable they are.

  5. #25
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    I don't have any of the documentation I found for this anymore but when I looked in to this a few years ago I found a lot of information indicating that they were contract guns built to a higher standard, as speculated here.

    That wouldn't surprise me; locally we see a fair number of contract Stags in LE ERT usage that are on par with a 6920. A couple of years before "the chart" existed and rifle tiers were common knowledge, I recall contract Stags being issued in a municipality close to here with the full meal deal...1:7 4150, HP/MPI, etc, etc.

    There are a lot of companies that COULD build a perfectly good clone of a 6920 if that was what they really wanted to do. Unfortunately, there's also plenty of money to be made doing stuff you know isn't as good, and lots of companies use that business model instead.
    Full disclosure: I'm the editor of Calibre Magazine, which is Canada's gun magazine. In the past I've done consulting work for different manufacturers and OEM suppliers, but not currently. M4C's disclosure policy doesn't seem to cover me but we do have advertisers, although I don't handle that side of things and in general I do not know who is paying us at any given time.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikakiah View Post
    That's basically what I was thinking. What grade do people around here consider RRA to be? Better than Bushmaster, DPMS, worse than PSA (I honestly don't know how the makers beyond the handful respected here as solid quality rank)?

    These are going to officers who do what? Put maybe 1000 rounds a year tops through them, and probably just in training and maybe some personal time? Surely a mid/lower mid-grade rifle is adaquate for that?

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk
    I would be amazed if that number was 1,000.

    In all honesty, with how alarmingly inadequate firearms training is in LE, 50-100 rounds per year would be more realistic.

    Our duty hand guns are shot once a year for the mandatory qualification.

    60 rounds.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by DTakas View Post
    Even though I respect Colt now I still don't like them because of all that crap from way back then.
    I don't blame you one bit. I don't know how much policy or management may have changed but it having happened before its not hard to imagine if Uncle Sam leaned on Colt theyd do the same kinds of things again.

  8. #28
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    1000 rounds lasts me a very short time. Some of the guys who aren't in any special assignments may make 6-10 years with 1000 rounds from a rifle.

    Plus, some of the "issues" would or could be corrected by the armorers. Some of them are really really good, some not so much.

    The typical fed field agent won't deploy a rifle very much at all. Same for your run of the mill local or state officer. Rural officer will tend to deploy a rifle more often because of range. When the closest you can get to a house is 100 yards plus a handgun is a bit of a stretch.

    Swat assignments will obviously handle the rifles much more and shoot a bunch more in training.

    Joe
    "The world would be a better place if more people owned wild animals and were eaten by them" me

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by bp7178 View Post
    What makes anyone in this thread think they actually shoot them enough for it to matter?
    Exactly

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by cgjane View Post
    most LE I know are not gun people.
    A lot in my area are not either. They do the minimum. A couple others are more militant,into competitions,etc.

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