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Thread: FBI is issuing Hobby Guns to Agents!!??!

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by T2C View Post
    If a small police agency saves several thousand dollars to purchase equipment that will see low use, it is understandable. It's either purchase what you can afford or do without patrol carbines.

    Most of the carbines carried by non SWAT officers will see very little use and will be sold before they have much more wear than break in.

    Local gun shop employees who brag that a police agency purchased a particular brand of carbine do not understand the economics behind the decision on what was purchased.

    When you go into a gun shop to make a purchase, arm yourself with information and ignore the bullshit.
    There is a couple smaller local agencies that do not have the funding for a patrol rifle for every officer. Many only have pump shotguns in their patrol cars, but the agency does allow personal carbines from an approved list to be used.
    Last edited by VIP3R 237; 10-16-13 at 14:57.
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  2. #52
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    Do you want to know how to get LE contracts?

    On your companies dime, fly their armor and guest(s) to your facility, give them the full VIP treatment, hand out plenty of free t-shirts and hats, pick up the tab at the bar/restaurant every night, and maybe if time allows hit the range. Float out some "demo" rifles and provide plenty of ammo.

    Sell them the rifle that meets their budget.

    There should be women too. Pretty ones...

  3. #53
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    One of our members here was using one for a while in A'stan and as I recall many of the guys were having issues.

    The DEA overseas teams using them would send them back to LWRC after arriving back in Quantico and LWRC would do some magic and then send them back. The field agents I spoke to told me that they were unaware what maintenance or parts were replaced, etc.. .

    Quote Originally Posted by Fjallhrafn View Post
    I've never heard anybody call LWRC hobby-grade before. Is this based on something - and if so, what - or are you simply picking up the torch laid down by MarkM?



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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by RogerinTPA View Post
    Those are all commercial grade hobby guns, to include Oly, Stag, LWRC, S&W M&P15 and everything else that's not a Colt, LMT, DD, BCM, which are military grade weapons. Same for Noveske and KAC, which are built beyond the TDP and what I classify as 'boutique' military grade guns, because of the additional quality built into them, as well as the associated costs. The M&P15 is the best of the commercial grade guns IMHO.
    You consider LWRC a hobby gun? Blasphemy!

  5. #55
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    You seem to have posted quite a few one liners in a short period of time. Please attempt to add some substance to your posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by britishtq View Post
    You consider LWRC a hobby gun? Blasphemy!



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  6. #56
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    FBI is issuing Hobby Guns to Agents!!??!

    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    One of our members here was using one for a while in A'stan and as I recall many of the guys were having issues.

    The DEA overseas teams using them would send them back to LWRC after arriving back in Quantico and LWRC would do some magic and then send them back. The field agents I spoke to told me that they were unaware what maintenance or parts were replaced, etc.. .
    Interesting, This is the first complaints I've heard about them. I'm a big BCM guy and recently bought a Daniel Defense which is also up there. Never had my BCM fail and all owners of LWRC I know have had good luck with their rifles.

    I still think they are much higher quality than a RRA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    You seem to have posted quite a few one liners in a short period of time. Please attempt to add some substance to your posts.
    Better?
    Last edited by britishtq; 10-16-13 at 18:12.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    The decision was made by the top and not by end users. In addition it is entirely possible that they paid particular attention to these guns when they put them together.
    Iraqgunz is on the right track.


    A standard was established for the required rifles based on the M-4 TDP (which alloys for receiver, bolt etc, HP/MPI testing, proper staking etc.). Test articles were submitted and Colt, SIG and RRA's samples met the standard so all three were given contracts but the FBI and DEA chose to purchase RRA. Who made the final choice between the three? A senior executive. Why? Cost most likely.

    The US Capitol Police subsequently chose to purchase RRA off the existing contract to replace their troubled HK G36s. Why ? Because testing and contracting take time and cost money.

    A better question is are the .GOV contract RRA M-4's supplied to the FBI and DEA the same as a commercial RRA M-4 ? I would say no. Same situation with Bushmasters TX DPS contract M-4.

    The contract guns are all built to a standard: all guns HP/MPI tested, all with properly staked carrier keys and receiver extensions etc. vs. RRA and BM commercial guns which are not. For example, RRA and BM's commercial guns are batch tested (10 out of each 100 get MPI etc.) and BM does not stake receiver extensions on commercial guns. The contract guns are then inspected by agency armorers before final acceptance to ensure the standards are met.

    Just like a Mil Spec M-4 is Mil Spec regardless of who makes it because it is built to a standard, the TDP, and that standard is enforced by the .MIL inspection and acceptance process.

    The real knock on RRA and Bushmaster are they are capable of making quality guns when the want to but]choose[/I] not to to maximize profits.
    Last edited by HCM; 10-16-13 at 18:17.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by bp7178 View Post
    Do you want to know how to get LE contracts?

    On your companies dime, fly their armor and guest(s) to your facility, give them the full VIP treatment, hand out plenty of free t-shirts and hats, pick up the tab at the bar/restaurant every night, and maybe if time allows hit the range. Float out some "demo" rifles and provide plenty of ammo.

    Sell them the rifle that meets their budget.

    There should be women too. Pretty ones...
    The Glock sales formula !

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    Iraqgunz is on the right track.


    A standard was established for the required rifles based on the M-4 TDP (which alloys for receiver, bolt etc, HP/MPI testing, proper staking etc.). Test articles were submitted and Colt, SIG and RRA's samples met the standard so all three were given contracts but the FBI and DEA chose to purchase RRA. Who made the final choice between the three? A senior executive. Why? Cost most likely.

    The US Capitol Police subsequently chose to purchase RRA off the existing contract to replace their troubled HK G36s. Why ? Because testing and contracting take time and cost money.

    A better question is are the .GOV contract RRA M-4's supplied to the FBI and DEA the same as a commercial RRA M-4 ? I would say no. Same situation with Bushmasters TX DPS contract M-4.

    The contract guns are all built to a standard: all guns HP/MPI tested, all with properly staked carrier keys and receiver extensions etc. vs. RRA and BM commercial guns which are not. For example, RRA and BM's commercial guns are batch tested (10 out of each 100 get MPI etc.) and BM does not stake receiver extensions on commercial guns. The contract guns are then inspected by agency armorers before final acceptance to ensure the standards are met.

    Just like a Mil Spec M-4 is Mil Spec regardless of who makes it because it is built to a standard, the TDP, and that standard is enforced by the .MIL inspection and acceptance process.

    The real knock on RRA and Bushmaster are they are capable of making quality guns when the want to but]choose[/I] not to to maximize profits.
    Another way to describe what I'm talking about is this: If you were to "chart" a .GOV contract RRA or TX DPS Contract BM they would score higher / fall into a higher "tier" than a RRA or BM commercial gun.

  10. #60
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    Agreed that staking certain parts is essential. Then why do some companies omit the step? My unqualified opinion is the necessary staking would consume little time so why skip it?

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