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Thread: Single stage Aftermarket vs. tweaked Mil-Spec triggers

  1. #21
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    My favorite trigger for about anything but dedicated precision work is a quality "milspec" trigger with a plating to reduce friction and improve the feel - it is still a long, seven pound pull, but it is consistent and smooth through the entire pull.

    Please let me know if I have offended you...
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    ALG triggers are USGI. They have been slightly modified and or coated to give them are more consistent/smoother trigger pull weight.



    C4
    Can standard AR triggers, whether generic or ALG, really be considered USGI as they are semi-auto only?

    Two Stage or Single Stage? I don't know about true USGI (burst or full auto) but the standard AR trigger has quite a bit of travel (what is often called "pre-travel") before the sear breaks, same amount as the two stage G- trigger. The difference (in feel, not geometry) is that the pull weight is the same all the way through to sear release. With the G- trigger, the first stage of travel is much lighter.

    In studying the two stage trigger of the Garand/M14, you'll see that the first stage is really a long sear engagement. Once it hits a certain point, the weight increases suddenly just before the sear releases. I believe the G- trigger works the same way.

    The 3 gun trigger (I believe it's called) has the same pull as the standard AR trigger but at a reduced pull weight and is very smooth. A single continuous pull weight until the sear breaks.

    In one point of view, the standard AR trigger and the 3 gun trigger can be defined and two stage triggers with the same pull through it's travel. However, I'm of the mind that since the second stage of a two stage trigger is defined by it's sudden increase in weight just before the sear release, that having a pull that's the same weight throughout the travel effectively means it's a single stage pull
    Last edited by MistWolf; 10-17-13 at 11:22.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DS-11B View Post
    I was completely not aware of that... maybe two stage triggers are reserved for combat arms occupations then. Every unit I was in all used two stage triggers. That is even what we were TRAINED to shoot on. That is really interesting, I never realized that the components of the rifle itself were different depending on your occupation. I mean, granted we had M-4s, PEQ-2's, EOTechs and ACOGs, etc... while the support units had M16A2s with iron sights but I didn't realize even the trigger was different.
    All M4's and M16's have a USGI FCG in it. This is a single stage trigger that commonly feels like a two stage because it CAN suck (long pull, gritty feel with creep).

    Only guns like USA DMR are going to see GOOD triggers like the Geissele in the Military.




    C4

  4. #24
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    What kind of coatings are they using?? teflon or such? Iam so used to crappy triggers i just learned to work around them..lol

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    Can standard AR triggers, whether generic or ALG, really be considered USGI as they are semi-auto only?

    Two Stage or Single Stage? I don't know about true USGI (burst or full auto) but the standard AR trigger has quite a bit of travel (what is often called "pre-travel") before the sear breaks, same amount as the two stage G- trigger. The difference (in feel, not geometry) is that the pull weight is the same all the way through to sear release. With the G- trigger, the first stage of travel is much lighter.

    In studying the two stage trigger of the Garand/M14, you'll see that the first stage is really a long sear engagement. Once it hits a certain point, the weight increases suddenly just before the sear releases. I believe the G- trigger works the same way.

    The 3 gun trigger (I believe it's called) has the same pull as the standard AR trigger but at a reduced pull weight and is very smooth. A single continuous pull weight until the sear breaks.

    In one point of view, the standard AR trigger and the 3 gun trigger can be defined and two stage triggers with the same pull through it's travel. However, I'm of the mind that since the second stage of a two stage trigger is defined by it's sudden increase in weight just before the sear release, that having a pull that's the same weight throughout the travel effectively means it's a single stage pull
    I think they half to be as they do not fit into any other catagory.

    Triggers like the Timney single stage, have a consistent pull weight through its SHORT length.

    Standard SA triggers (like the in the Colt 6920) are also single stage, but have a longer pull, different pull weights (6-8lbs) and have creep (typically).

    Triggers like the Geissele SSA have a 2.5LBS first pull weight, then a wall and then a 2LBS pull weight breaking the "glass rod."


    USGI triggers do not have that clean break like a true 2 stage does. They tend to creep as they are pulled and I think that makes people think that they are a 2 stage (when they actually are not).



    C4
    Last edited by C4IGrant; 10-17-13 at 12:50.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunhand View Post
    What kind of coatings are they using?? teflon or such? Iam so used to crappy triggers i just learned to work around them..lol
    Which triggers? ALG? One is standard USGI and the other one has Nickel Boron coating.



    C4

  7. #27
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    I have read (on various forums) that 'company funds' can be used to acquire improved trigger parts for the company's guns.
    How this might work (or even if it is true) is less than clear to me, but it has been cited numerous time, usually in conjunction with the full auto version of the Geissele SSA.
    Moon

  8. #28
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    If you like the design and the reliability of the single stage mil-spec trigger; try an ALG ACT.

  9. #29
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    If the OP really wants a single stage trigger he might look into a Geissele Super Dynamic 3 Gun. I have one in a Colt M4A1 (6920), and it is pretty close to a single stage trigger. There is actually no real wall or breaking point on the thing, you simply pull the trigger it feels like a tiny amount of slack is taking up and it breaks. A little different to get used to but it is very smooth, and the trigger travel is pretty short. Also I'll note that the reset on the trigger is very very short, and very positive.

    Mine came with two trigger springs, one 3.5lb and one 4.5lb. The 3.5lb spring makes for a really nice light pull for whacking vermin and targets, but I would put the 4.5lb in for any kind of duty use.

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