Is "Muzzle Up" Viable?

[LouDiamond]

You absolutely must not know what you're talking about nor have you spent much time in a kill house. Do not be putting shit like that out, with that said..

Apparently you have spent too much time in training houses, many of which are built like CONUS structures with code size door ways. A tour in Afghanistan and in certain parts of Iraq and it would be quite clear that trying to go through a doorway with your muzzle up the way you described would be impossible. Door way and room size aside, unless your description is lacking in detail in its explanation ,your example scenario leaves me wondering where that technique is being taught as it conflicts with what the people who do this for a living do.

BTW, I can only speak from my experience and I have been doing this for real, for a living for the past 20 years.

SimplyDynamic's description is pretty much on the money. There is a time and a place where muzzle up is the right choice or sometimes the only choice. With that said, you won't find many people advocating this as THE training system to use like muzzle down is, it is simply one more tool in a tool box of skills to have.

[SIMPLYDYNAMIC]

Travis - thank you for your valuable insight.

If I could pick your brain again, I wanted to ask you about "workspace" and the long gun. In the same thread they were showing bringing the rifle (the discussion was centered around AK's) into your "workspace" but this was demonstrated to be the same region as a pistol, i.e. right in front of your face. I didn't have a warm fuzzy about this for several reasons, though I did concede that it allowed for a viable reload technique for an AK, but that it also had significant negatives as well.

Can you share your thoughts?

T,

I can say that the best way to get a weapon back in the fight is through the most efficient movements... I actually Roll the weapon keeping the Stock in the pivot index point of the shoulder/chest. this way I maximise speed, can see the well, and minimize excessive waste movement...

[texasfrog]

the exact situation will dictate what i do and don't do, but right off the top of my head i would give him a love tap in the chest with my muzzel and continue to clear my corner, making sure i don't slow down the train behind me.

i was serious about you coming to watch our block, that is if the headshed buys off on it

[texasfrog]

Apparently you have spent too much time in training houses, many of which are built like CONUS structures with code size door ways. A tour in Afghanistan and in certain parts of Iraq and it would be quite clear that trying to go through a doorway with your muzzle up the way you described would be impossible. Door way and room size aside, unless your description is lacking in detail in its explanation ,your example scenario leaves me wondering where that technique is being taught as it conflicts with what the people who do this for a living do.

BTW, I can only speak from my experience and I have been doing this for real, for a living for the past 20 years.

SimplyDynamic's description is pretty much on the money. There is a time and a place where muzzle up is the right choice or sometimes the only choice. With that said, you won't find many people advocating this as THE training system to use like muzzle down is, it is simply one more tool in a tool box of skills to have.

dude, you are barking up the wrong tree.
do you honestly think that i pay with my own money to go and do house runs. train like you fight, but know when to adapt to any situation!!!
no, i do it my workup with the teams so i can do ANOTHER tour to iraq, afghanistan, africa, phillipines, or wherever else you think i may not have been.

edited this post

[SIMPLYDYNAMIC]

the exact situation will dictate what i do and don't do, but right off the top of my head i would give him a love tap in the chest with my muzzel and continue to clear my corner, making sure i don't slow down the train behind me.

i was serious about you coming to watch our block, that is if the headshed buys off on it

Dude thats Exactly what I would do!... a muzzle thump to the chest is great and very effective! and the best part: YOU CAN KEEP YOUR STOCK IN YOUR SHOULDER!...

you can deliver a blow much faster from the shoulder then from taking out of your shoulder dropping down and then forward.

How long is your CQB training block by the way?

A tour in Afghanistan and in certain parts of Iraq and it would be quite clear that trying to go through a doorway with your muzzle up the way you described would be impossible

he does have a point! ever done hits in the Gan?

[Jay Cunningham]

Guys,

Throttle back the chest-thumping RTFN.

This is not "other forums", we expect professional discussion here.


eta: the discussion about actual chest-thumping (muzzle strikes) is ok, it's the virtual chest-thumping we can live without

[LouDiamond]

dude, you are barking up the wrong ****ing tree.
do you honestly think that i pay with my own money to go and do house runs.
no, i do it my workup with the teams so i can do ANOTHER tour to iraq, afghanistan, africa, phillipines, or wherever else you think i may not have been.

You obviously missed what I said other wise you wouldn't think that I pay to run through the house. I've been on the two way rifle range now for 20 years and counting still....but hey what do I know, you've been doing it for 10 and apparently know everything.

[SIMPLYDYNAMIC]

Roger that T,

Anyways, I think its really comes down to what method you can preform more efficiently and effectively. I am all about controlled speed under stress... and and some positions obviously have there drawbacks to that...

[NCPatrolAR]

Another thing is readily apparent in this discussion. As of right now; all the talk is about military use and is focused on room combat. The tactic as taught by TR, covers non-military use and in areas besides inside structures.

[SIMPLYDYNAMIC]

Good point,

Like I metioned breifly earlier, Teams have certain SOPs to deal with situations like that, In LE they cant go blasting someone in the knees to solve a muzzle grab. but without getting into tactics here they would deal with it not much different then we would... man on man, let the rest of the team do their job.

And for the outside areas like we were supposed to be talking about in the first place (sorry) I think it has an application only when loading or shooting over the top of a teammate, but other than that, you can move and run faster in a muzzle down config.

Just whatch this video of a guy running with his muzzle here... is his muzzle strait in the air? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNaDmLQKIzc your body will react differently under stress...