newbie...coming back home to the M4/AR

**warrior9504** · 05-03-08, 13:20

All,
Ok I got out of the army a couple years ago after 4 years in the infantry and three trips to the "sandboxes." When I got enough money to buy a rifle I thought..."nah I don't want an M4-style I want something new." So I got an M1A Socom 16. Well after a couple trips to the range and several times trying to figure out how to disassemble/clean that thing I miss my M4. I could field-strip and functions check and M4 blindfolded underwater with one arm....so I wanna come back.

I'll be poking around trying to get learn stuff about civilian versions for a while. By the way, anyone want to trade a Colt/LMT AR for my M1A? I can't post in the for sale area yet but PM me if interested.

One quick question: Everyone talks about blue extractor spring inserts as being bad...I had one of those in my GI M4. What's so bad about them?

**Bat Guano** · 05-03-08, 23:56

The M14 system is pretty much a snap to keep running, and a whole lot less effort than the ARs. There is little reason to do anything other than keep it properly lubricated (with grease in the right places) and do the usual bore/chamber cleaning. The gas system needs attention about once a year, and same for dismountng the op rod, bolt removal, etc. It takes me about ten minutes to clean my M1 or M1A properly. Lots of info on these types of rifles over at www.jouster.com.

I am distinctly underwhelmed by the shorty M1As but the standard rifle is a fine weapon. The M4 types are a different breed of cat and just excel in their own niche.

**MassMark** · 05-04-08, 07:11

I too am on the road back to AR-15 land with my own M4 build. I cannot answer your question about the o-ring, but someone will be along. BG is on the money about just needing a different mindset about your M1A. I never had any real issues with my Colt NM A2 as far as maintenance goes, but it is a different animal entirely. Similarly, I have had no issues maintaining my Troy MCS/SOCOM-16 - in fact, once you set the rifle up properly, I've found it to require less in the way of routine care. With my 7.62x51 stockpile shrinking and ammo cost rising, I have been shooting less, but I do shoot weekly and go many, many rounds downrange before I feel the need to clean. I have found proper application of grease and proper cleaning tools to be the key.

I am not underwhelmed at all by the shorty M1A. The SOCOM-16 in particular drew fire from M1A/M14 purists for it's chopped barrel, wide front sight and rear aperture, "loud comp" and perceptions of inaccuracy. I have found these points to be moot personally. It was never designed as a match rifle - it was designed to hit people. The Trijicon front sight is instinctive to doing just that - with ease. It's handy, shoulders well and the comp is a thing of beauty for follow-ups. Since sinking mine into a Troy MCS, it has taken this rifle to an entirely new level in both the accuracy and utility departments. Accuracy gains were immediate and utility gains were obvious from day one. As jazzed as I am about getting my AR finished, it will be a tough call to replace my SOCOM-16 as anything but my go-to rifle.

Have you started the process of what type of weapon you're going after with your M4 purchase? Buy? Build? Keep reading here - there's some great information and opinion coupled with wisdom and experience to back it up. Congrats on your decision to come home to the M4, but don't be too quick to give up on your M1A - I think both have their purpose in your world and besides, what could be better than two bad-assed rifles - except maybe three...

**warrior9504** · 05-04-08, 23:05

MassMark,
I was actually considering the Troy for my M1A because to date I have been VERY unimpressed with its performance. I had heard the Troy does some great things but it would cost me nearly $900 until it was set up and ready to go...and that might just be a bit much for a "gee I hope this works."

Anyway, after several trips to the range and a real inability to get groups I am happy with (not to mention being frustrated at feeling dumb as I disassemble/clean reassemble...can do that blindfolded with an M4) I figured that instead of buying the Troy MCS I could trade this M1A for a decent M4+$ and then take that $ and some fun money I have (that would have gone to the Troy) and buy me ANOTHER gun

Thoughts?

**jpcolt76** · 05-05-08, 06:41

I had a Socom for awhile and grew tired of the accuracy results from a rifle in that price range. I have a PTR91 Carbine that cost $600 dollars less than the Socom, shoots better groups than the Socom, has $5 mags and is just has reliable a system. If I was you, I would Gunbroker that Socom and start looking for another rifle. It is hard to put money into a gun you have already soured on.

There is a trutorial on how to take a M1A apart on Youtube. It helped me a great deal in taking mine apart.

Thank you for your service to our country! Men and women like you are the reason it is still here.

**MassMark** · 05-05-08, 07:52

Warrior,

I hear you and I don't blame you for your frustration. I just liked the concept of the SOCOM-16, the reliability and accuracy of the M1A, the hitting power of the 7.62x51 and chose to invest in it further. I think if you're shooting for tight groups with the bare bones SOCOM-16, you're asking too much of the rifle. With the wide blade, I was easily keeping it about 4MOA at 100-yards - sometimes better - sometimes worse, but always center mass. Things really took off when I plunked a Trijicon Tripower on deck and the rifle came into it's own. Then I got to T&E a Troy MCS and fell in love so much that I bought it. I kept it a stock A2, so I was out $675.00 for the system and wouldn't trade it for a pile of PTR-91's and a truckload of $5.00 magazines - but that's just me. I see guys, (many right here), pouring funds into M4 builds, (and beyond), so as a whole, I don't feel like I've short-changed myself whatsoever. If anything, I've taken a proven, reliable and accurate design and taken to the next level with the help of the Troy MCS....

You however my friend, need to trust and love your rifle. If the SOCOM-16 just isn't for you and you've given it a fair shot to win you over, then I'd sell it and build/buy yourself the Holy Grail of M4's. Some of the cats on here have some awe-inspiring beautiful rifles and after my Anvil build is done, my sights will be set on building another one with the guidance of the folks right here....Good luck!

**Batt 57** · 05-05-08, 09:23

Not to hijack this thread.... but has anyone compared the SOCOM 16 to a DSA Para-FAL?

It seems to me that the retail price is about the same without the addition of the Troy MCS.

http://www.dsarms.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SA58ELITE

Just curious what you SOCOM owners think. I was debating getting one but after seeing the DSA I may change my mind. I have ARS StG58 now have always loved shooting it. It is just too big/heavy for any thing other than range play.

**Creature** · 05-06-08, 17:39

Everyone talks about blue extractor spring inserts as being bad...I had one of those in my GI M4. What's so bad about them?

I am curious about this as well...

**C4IGrant** · 05-06-08, 19:21

Originally Posted by warrior9504

All,
Ok I got out of the army a couple years ago after 4 years in the infantry and three trips to the "sandboxes." When I got enough money to buy a rifle I thought..."nah I don't want an M4-style I want something new." So I got an M1A Socom 16. Well after a couple trips to the range and several times trying to figure out how to disassemble/clean that thing I miss my M4. I could field-strip and functions check and M4 blindfolded underwater with one arm....so I wanna come back.

I'll be poking around trying to get learn stuff about civilian versions for a while. By the way, anyone want to trade a Colt/LMT AR for my M1A? I can't post in the for sale area yet but PM me if interested.

One quick question: Everyone talks about blue extractor spring inserts as being bad...I had one of those in my GI M4. What's so bad about them?

In the Military, the blue extractor insert identified that the spring you were using was a 4 coil extractor spring. In the civy world, it does not mean the same thing. Blue extractor inserts are VERY soft and black extractor inserts are much stiffer. CRANE has gone out and come up with a reliability package for any gun that uses a carbine gas system (M4, MK18, etc). It consists of a black extractor insert, 5 Coil extractor spring and an O-Ring.

C4

**RogerinTPA** · 05-06-08, 21:19

Welcome Warrior. I wore the All American and Ranger tab back in the day. I never fired a SOCOM enough to form an informed opinion, but have lots of trigger time on NM M1A1s. I missed the accuracy of shooting such a fine weapon. Just wish the SOCOM came close. I met a guy last weekend who owed one and he had the hardest time getting that thing a good zero. I got it close, but ran out of time and ammo. I spent 20 years on active duty and reserves and still learning about the AR. You will definitely get quality, no BS info on the AR's, as well as other weapons here.