Why do .mil guys shoulder so high?

[SeriousStudent]

F2S,

Thanks very much for the explanation. As always, I appreciate your time and educational skills, particularly with a window-licker such as myself. The point about fratricide risk is an excellent one as well.

Stay safe!

[BLACK LION]

Got damnit January needs to arrive sooner

Profound post once again FTS.

I read in one of my "swat sniper" books(authors name escapes me)
that as part of trianing and unbeknownst to his neighbors, would "hold the scope" on them to gain an affinity for how the idiosyncracies of 2 legged animals transmits thru a rifle scope. Of course, keeping the safety rules in the utmost regard.
I am a proponent of small compact variable binoculars and I currently use the Barska 9-27x25 version...
I would also like to get my paws on a Brunton zoom monocular which is a 10-30x21.

I have no problems holding the scope on an undetermined threat if the situation warrants it and using binocs or monocs arent feasible or available.

[ramennoodles]

F2S,

Thanks very much for the explanation. As always, I appreciate your time and educational skills, particularly with a window-licker such as myself. The point about fratricide risk is an excellent one as well.

Stay safe!

haha, you said window licker. I haven't heard that in a while. All I know is when bad people appear, I put the red dot or front sight post on target and then there's a bunch of loud noises. I don't think about where the butt stock is.

[ROGOPGEAR]

I too had my stance and how I shouldered my AR pretty much figured out, and thought boohiss on those boneheads until my brother visited and I tried on "some" of his gear.

As you can see I embraced the ghey way but here are a few noobish offerings of some of my observations.

1. The plate carrier with chest rig over top kinda got in the way of my original "perfect shoulder technique" (it stuck out a few more inches) and to get any purchase or support I had too shoulder it high and on the outside of my shoulder.
2. Although it is a fixed stock, I did try it with my collapsible stock, and when I shouldered it "correctly" it felt like I was holding the AR way out in front of me even with the stock collapsed all the way (and it just didn't feel right sitting on all that gear instead of shoulder)
3. Bringing the head down to the weapon instead of the weapon up to the head is great and all, but now imagine that with a helmet that ways a ton and with some NVGs on it too, you might be singing a different tune after a while. (said a little funky but you know what I am saying)
4. Turning sideways in my stance alleviated a few problems, instead of squaring up to the target.
5. I did some shooting and moving too, and wearing this small amount of gear (he had some plates but not all, and I still had no where near the amount of gear he would normally be carrying) had a huge effect on my normal mobility and maneuvers.

So, all I am saying is that many things change when you put 50+ pounds of gear on and strap things all over your body, kinda messes up your perfect technique and finesse equilibrium that you had established while running around in a t-shirt with a few mag pouches hanging off your belt. You can't shoulder your weapon like you would normally, moving your head around feels like trying to move a watermelon, doing all this wonderful jump on your side and shoot under the car and pop back up stuff kinda goes out the window, you lose your balance and trip over things, and often can't even see your feet because of all the gear hanging off your body.

This is only to give perspective to some of the "incorrect" techniques embraced by our actual warriors. Those of you on here who have actually been in harms way in like manner, thank you, and rock on, this message was not meant for you.

PS forgot to add the 100+ degree heat, this probably kills a lot of once good intentions.

Me in the first two with my brothers gear, some real operators in the last with "horrible" technique.

[Failure2Stop]

I too had my stance and how I shouldered my AR pretty much figured out, and thought boohiss on those boneheads until my brother visited and I tried on "some" of his gear.

A few things, regarding this post-

1- That gear setup is all kinds of jacked up.
2- I train people every day in armor. The problems you notice are due to the fact that you don't live in armor like we do. This is one of the reasons that we spend a lot of time wearing it and shooting in it. I have yet to have a shooter that could not get into a good position.
3- There are lots of people that are inefficient with their weapons, and sometimes they make it onto the covers of books.

[castillo]

Just because you are in the military does not mean you know jack about guns or shooting tactics. Most of the untruths I've heard in terms of ballistics, tactics, weapons maintainance, etc. I heard in the Army, especially in TRADOC environments.

[VooDoo6Actual]

imo,

Keeping your weapon high on my shoulder allowing your head to be more upright and does a better job of keeping your eyes and head orientated on and at the threat(s).

Approx. 93% of what humans process through their OODA loops are from the visual/eyes.

Your eyes need to be on recognized threat(s) eliminating them and scanning for more even though we conciously know to cover 360 safely w/o sweeping friendlies we can still accurately shoot at one target per sight picture per se.

Whether your shooting from cover, concealment, exposed, crouched, improvised shooting postions etc your BHG/OODA needs to be able to get as much of threat matrix picture as possible imo.

HTH....

[Failure2Stop]

Keeping your weapon high on my shoulder allowing your head to be more upright and does a better job of keeping your eyes and head orientated on and at the threat(s).

Uh, explain to me again why my weapon is on your shoulder.

Your eyes need to be on recognized threat(s) eliminating them and scanning for more even though we conciously know to cover 360 safely w/o sweeping friendlies we can still accurately shoot at one target per sight picture per se.

Whether your shooting from cover, concealment, exposed, crouched, improvised shooting postions etc your BHG/OODA needs to be able to get as much of threat matrix picture as possible imo.

I look for and evaluate threats with the gun low and out of my line of sight, or raise my head off of the gun. It doesn't matter how the head is held, if there is a big object in the line of sight, there will be less to see.

Having an aggressive stance/position while shooting does not have to detract from observation ability while observing.

[BLACK LION]

I caught that one but left it up to more "seasoned professionals" to tag it and bag it...

Good eye!

[ROGOPGEAR]

A few things, regarding this post-

1- That gear setup is all kinds of jacked up. (pray tell what is so jacked up so I can tell my brother so he can increase his survivability/efficiency so we can have him come back home, since he is in Iraq right now)
2- I train people every day in armor. The problems you notice are due to the fact that you don't live in armor like we do. This is one of the reasons that we spend a lot of time wearing it and shooting in it. I have yet to have a shooter that could not get into a good position. (true I do not live in armor, not a pro and will not even try to claim to be, and therefore my noobish observations are completely illegitimate, right?)
3- There are lots of people that are inefficient with their weapons, and sometimes they make it onto the covers of books. hmm, and inefficiency with a weapon can be judged by one picture? point proven.

thanx.