Why do .mil guys shoulder so high?

[panzerr]

Just because you are in the military does not mean you know jack about guns or shooting tactics. Most of the untruths I've heard in terms of ballistics, tactics, weapons maintainance, etc. I heard in the Army, especially in TRADOC environments.

I couldn't agree more.

The Army does a horse shit job of teaching infantrymen how to employ their primary weapon system. It is up to the individual to go outside the 'Army box of knowledge' (which is designed for the lowest common denominator) to learn how to effectively employ their weapon systems.

[Failure2Stop]

(pray tell what is so jacked up so I can tell my brother so he can increase his survivability/efficiency so we can have him come back home, since he is in Iraq right now)

Take a look at the gear.
A chest rig overtop of a vest is inefficient. If you need to get your shit on RIGHT NOW, you will be behind the power curve. It takes longer to put everything on, longer to take off (including cut off, should the wearer need to get holes plugged or squirters clamped), is thicker, incurrs more shifting/movement that either alone, and makes shouldering the gun more difficult.
The big pouch on the front will make you a higher profile when prone and blocks vision downward. It will also make enclosure clearing rough as it will force the wearer further away from the next forward guy in the stack, which will make the wearer slower into the room, leaving the other entry guys more vulnerable, and thus more likely to get shot-up, which would make the wearer more likely to get shot-up. Get rid of it.
The knife by the left shoulder- one of the worst places for access, unless you want to cut your own neck, in which case it is perfect. Recommend placement so that the draw puts the hand in a position to use the item instead of easily being trapped/blocked.
The big pouches on the side are going to rub the elbows/arms, which will get really annoying, and whatever that little pouch on your right side is could easily be tucked somewhere less obtrusive.
All those big pouches sticking out everywhere are not necessary. A small pack that fits the stuff is generally a much easier/more comfortable/fightable answer.

(true I do not live in armor, not a pro and will not even try to claim to be, and therefore my noobish observations are completely illegitimate, right?)

I didn't say that. I explained why it felt so alien and weird to you, which is due to lack of experience and knowledge.

Me telling you you suck at shooting while wearing armor should insult you about as much as being told that you are a shitty Space Shuttle Co-Pilot. The only difference is that most people have never touched the space shuttle and therefore are not damaging their ego when they admit that they don't know anything about it. Guns and armor, on the other hand, due to their availability and male machismo, incurr some illogical assumption of proficiency due to proximity. It's ok to be bad at something you have never done before.

The observations of general feel and comfort are absolutely applicable. It isn't too tough to identify things like: heavy, cumbersome, restrictive, etc. However, if you have never been instructed on how to use a rifle with the armor and are just making it up as you go along, sorry, but no, your observations are not as valuable/instructive as those that have and do.

hmm, and inefficiency with a weapon can be judged by one picture? point proven.

Yes, I can. Bear in mind that I said "inefficient", not "ineffective".
Like I said before, and anyone that has read more than two of my posts will know, I do this shit for a living. I have the ability to rapidly identify and correct issues to get the best performance with the most efficiency as possible from a shooter.

And what point was proven? If you are trying to imply that I don't know what I am talking about and that I would have to see more pictures to see a fault, I am sorry, but that would be incorrect. All more pictures would show would be more problems. Look at the pic of the guys on the Mike Pannone cover.
The guy closest to the camera is leaning against the cover, which is inefficient as it will take him longer to get lower behind the wall, and makes him vulnerable to splash and spall off the face of the wall, as well as greater secondary frag through the wall.
He could probably be in a kneeling supported position, which would be much more efficient and accurate than a standing.
The guy further away is holding the VFG with a broom-stick hold, which is less efficient.
Both of the guys have their sotcks a little hig, but they are both well lower than the picture you posted of yourself.

thanx.

You're welcome

[BLACK LION]

The guy further away is holding the VFG with a broom-stick hold, which is less efficient.

AKA, "choking the chicken"...

[ROGOPGEAR]

Take a look at the gear.
A chest rig overtop of a vest is inefficient. If you need to get your shit on RIGHT NOW, you will be behind the power curve. It takes longer to put everything on, longer to take off (including cut off, should the wearer need to get holes plugged or squirters clamped), is thicker, incurrs more shifting/movement that either alone, and makes shouldering the gun more difficult.
The big pouch on the front will make you a higher profile when prone and blocks vision downward. It will also make enclosure clearing rough as it will force the wearer further away from the next forward guy in the stack, which will make the wearer slower into the room, leaving the other entry guys more vulnerable, and thus more likely to get shot-up, which would make the wearer more likely to get shot-up. Get rid of it.
The knife by the left shoulder- one of the worst places for access, unless you want to cut your own neck, in which case it is perfect. Recommend placement so that the draw puts the hand in a position to use the item instead of easily being trapped/blocked.
The big pouches on the side are going to rub the elbows/arms, which will get really annoying, and whatever that little pouch on your right side is could easily be tucked somewhere less obtrusive.
All those big pouches sticking out everywhere are not necessary. A small pack that fits the stuff is generally a much easier/more comfortable/fightable answer.



I didn't say that. I explained why it felt so alien and weird to you, which is due to lack of experience and knowledge.

Me telling you you suck at shooting while wearing armor should insult you about as much as being told that you are a shitty Space Shuttle Co-Pilot. The only difference is that most people have never touched the space shuttle and therefore are not damaging their ego when they admit that they don't know anything about it. Guns and armor, on the other hand, due to their availability and male machismo, incurr some illogical assumption of proficiency due to proximity. It's ok to be bad at something you have never done before.

The observations of general feel and comfort are absolutely applicable. It isn't too tough to identify things like: heavy, cumbersome, restrictive, etc. However, if you have never been instructed on how to use a rifle with the armor and are just making it up as you go along, sorry, but no, your observations are not as valuable/instructive as those that have and do.



Yes, I can. Bear in mind that I said "inefficient", not "ineffective".
Like I said before, and anyone that has read more than two of my posts will know, I do this shit for a living. I have the ability to rapidly identify and correct issues to get the best performance with the most efficiency as possible from a shooter.

And what point was proven? If you are trying to imply that I don't know what I am talking about and that I would have to see more pictures to see a fault, I am sorry, but that would be incorrect. All more pictures would show would be more problems. Look at the pic of the guys on the Mike Pannone cover.
The guy closest to the camera is leaning against the cover, which is inefficient as it will take him longer to get lower behind the wall, and makes him vulnerable to splash and spall off the face of the wall, as well as greater secondary frag through the wall.
He could probably be in a kneeling supported position, which would be much more efficient and accurate than a standing.
The guy further away is holding the VFG with a broom-stick hold, which is less efficient.
Both of the guys have their sotcks a little hig, but they are both well lower than the picture you posted of yourself.


You're welcome

In all seriousness, thank you for your second post, it was much more constructive than the first. On the little packs, my brother is a medic for his infantry unit, and those packs contain a plethora of medical gear that is absolutely essential to doing his job. He chose to put them there so they would be in his workspace and instantly accessible, and more efficient. Sorry, that probably would have helped to know. On the chest rig over the armor, that is probably more of a selfish reason for the both of us, I provided the money and we bought identical rigs together and he ended up integrating it into his kit (so it is probably not the most efficient, as you pointed out).

My original point was to lessen the blasting of our military by those who have never had the eye opening experience of "being in their shoes." Just from that momentary experience, I realized that much of what I had learned previously would have to be modified/adapted to those new parameters, which were quite cumbersome. I guess it opened my eyes to a different world.

I understand that that in no way applies to you, just from the little posted on your public profile, and the vast content of your many posts, so I guess my intended point was completely lost in your extensive training, it was just to pass on a revelatory experience to other noobs such as myself for the collective betterment. And for the lessening of the bashing.

Thank you again for your assistance. I will be reading more of your posts.

[Failure2Stop]

On the little packs, my brother is a medic for his infantry unit, and those packs contain a plethora of medical gear that is absolutely essential to doing his job. He chose to put them there so they would be in his workspace and instantly accessible, and more efficient. Sorry, that probably would have helped to know.

Funny, just as I hit the "send" button I thought, "Wouldn't it be funny if he was a medic?"
In that case the large pouches make absolute sense. I don't have much to teach medics since they have a distinct seperate role from mine, other than glaring issues.
All my best to your brother.