Do I really need a defensive shotgun? Convince me....

[26 Inf]

I thought accuracy with single rounds decreases in a stressful situation, 12g buck shot offers 9-13 pellets spread in alarge pattern.

Modern police/defensive buckshot loads pattern fairly tight - inside 30 feet (10 yards) you are essentially looking at a 5 inch, or less pattern. My living room is about 14 feet across from dining room to front door, a shot at that distance with the buckshot I use is going to be slightly larger than bore-sized, in that respect the defensive shotgun requires as much precision as a rifle.

[Canonshooter]

In general, my range time shooting lots of buckshot convinces me that it's a 35 yard and under proposition.

Yes, agreed. Part of the problem with discussions like this one is defining the "defensive" scenario;

Have we taken a defensive position in a room and waiting for the BG to kick down the door? Are we considering the scenario as only inside the home with limited movement? I believe that these cover the majority of purely "home defense" scenarios in which a "defensive SG" would be wholly effective. While not better than the AR for this use, I certainly would not feel handicapped.

It is only when the scenario turns into more neighborhood/community defense, where mobility (including lighter weight), greater ammo capacity (both in the weapon and on-person), and longer range are expected that the SG seriously falls behind vs. the carbine.

So back to the original question - no, you do not have to invest if you already own an AR. But if I had to take the AR and leave a loved one behind to defend the home, I would much rather leave them with a defensive SG than a pistol or Uncle Joe's double barrel.

[filthy phil]

No you don't need one, but as stated above a nice 870 with an extended tube isn't much and you never know when it could come in handy for a specific use beyond training and/or defense. If you look hard enough you should be able to find one for about $400+.

+1
I gave $379 for this 870 tactical but it can be had at walmart for $350.


for a barricade defense situation a scattergun is hard to beat.
Also the cops will have it indefinitely after a sd scenario. A $350 gun wont hurt as bad to lose than a $1k ar15

[filthy phil]

In lieu of a carbine (as in you don't have one for whatever reason), a definite yes.

Even with a carbine, some good points about "social acceptance" among the uninformed is made in this thread, along with many other valid points about the use of a SG for HD.

Also, shotgun ammo has evolved dramatically (FC wads, reduced recoil loads, limited-penetration expanding slugs, etc.) and like the AR, the popular brands are well supported with accessories, lending even more to its versatility in a HD application.

I had an old 11-87 sitting around collecting dust, so the answer was easy for me. I'm very pleased with the final results, far more than I ever thought I'd be - a very useful HD weapon that retains the classic polished blued steel/wood furniture "sporting arm" looks. Just something to consider in a society where hoplophobia is running rampant and the liberal rage against "assault weapons" remains unabated.

Nice looking piece there

[Suwannee Tim]

Nice looking piece there

Indeed. I'm no fan of shotguns, I have two of them and haven't fired either in over 20 years. Nevertheless, I like the above mentioned 870, wood stock, short barrel, very sporting looking, unlikely to be banned, ammo very common and a very versatile piece.

[Kokopelli]

Possibly one would want a "tactical" shotgun just because it's available and they like firearms? In the world that some seem to describe, everyone would one S&W revolver.. period.. I guess we could take up a hobby...

[Canonshooter]

Nice looking piece there

Thanks!

...wood stock, short barrel, very sporting looking, unlikely to be banned, ammo very common and a very versatile piece.

Yes, exactly. Install a full length barrel and remove mag extension at same time (about 60 seconds of work), and it becomes as sporting/ban resistant as it gets. I think this is the same reason Mr. Smith's lever guns are so attractive as well...

[Jellybean]

Not a must have in my opinion, but another tool in the tool box. One thing to consider, during the ammo panic, the only ammo easily found around here were all forms of 12 gauge shells.

Only reason I keep my shotgun is gun ban insurance.

-john

I don't know about that- during recent ammo run, with rifle/handgun ammo nonexistant, the 12 ga. was starting to walk out the door pretty fast...
Seriously- I was in the "local" bass pro, and we had come in from a empty-table gunshow to buy shotgun ammo- we bought a decent amount (the max the store would allow, actually) and we were NOT by far the only ones buying 12ga. ammo in that sort of quantity....
So, YMMV in regards to bans/ammo runs.

No need to get a defense shotgun if you already have a good carbine. Nothing says you can't get buckshot or slugs for your hunting shotgun. If you need close in weapon to where bbl length is a concern, then use the carbine or pistol. Otherwise your 28" bbl with buckshot or slugs is fine for front or back yard encounters or defending behind a safe room door.

I would rather make sure my carbine and pistol have enough mags and ammo and good sights or optics and a redundant second before adding a defense specific shotgun.

I think the shotgun makes sense if you need a first defensive long gun on a budget. Hard to beat the value if a $300 Mossberg 500 or Rem 870. But that is superseded by a good carbine.

^^
This.
If on a budget, then it shines.
If you can afford a decent carbine and handgun, meh.

Yes, agreed. Part of the problem with discussions like this one is defining the "defensive" scenario;

Have we taken a defensive position in a room and waiting for the BG to kick down the door? Are we considering the scenario as only inside the home with limited movement? I believe that these cover the majority of purely "home defense" scenarios in which a "defensive SG" would be wholly effective. While not better than the AR for this use, I certainly would not feel handicapped.

It is only when the scenario turns into more neighborhood/community defense, where mobility (including lighter weight), greater ammo capacity (both in the weapon and on-person), and longer range are expected that the SG seriously falls behind vs. the carbine.

So back to the original question - no, you do not have to invest if you already own an AR. But if I had to take the AR and leave a loved one behind to defend the home, I would much rather leave them with a defensive SG than a pistol or Uncle Joe's double barrel.

^^
And this.
Especially if you live in a rural area.

That being said, to be completely contradictory to what I just agreed with, having some time on a shotgun, I realized that I totally hate them, and it would be a weapon of last resort if for some reason I could not have/get to an AR or handgun (kind of like an AK...)
Which is the one and only reason it's sticking around (that and the resale value of an 870E-Tac just ain't worth selling). The manipulations suck (I HATE reloading with loose rounds), the ammo cap sucks, the ammo weight and carriage sucks, and the recoil is just bullshit with full-power ammo- especially considering I can shoot my AR or handgun ALL DAY LONG and not feel a thing afterwards. I've never felt so vindicated in jumping straight into ARs as opposed to shotguns 7 years ago as I have recently- that and current class/reading content has changed my mindset a lot regarding weapon choice as well. The shotty just doesn't fit in any more, for me.
That being said, some of it is simply a training issue, and I am not a huge guy, so that doesn't help matters any- maybe I should invest in a 20ga. semi or something but I'm a little loathe to put out any more money on shotguns at this point.
And if I'm having a hard time working with a shotgun, I have my doubts about how a "loved one"- especially if they have little shooting experience-will fare with it- since they'll have to aim anyway at defensive distances and can't "spray and pray", are they really that much better off than with a lighter, much less "scary" handgun? Of course I guess that's just a good case for getting those people on a gun ASAP, but Imho, there's a reason you don't see many women packing shotguns....

As far as anti-ban material, yeah it's something to shoot relatively cheaply, and likely to be one of the last things banned if configured in a societally correct form (although WHY we all feel the need to pre-comply with such bullshit or worry about what some limp-wristed sissies think about how a gun "looks" is another choir-preaching topic) but at the same time, I would rather invest in a decent budget bolt gun with a DBM, and work on getting really good at shooting really far (or lever action), and assuming an allout ban condition, use a higher caliber handgun (.45 or such) or lever action for HD.
Of course asuming we don't go full retard and ban scopes, in which case at that point this country is beyond ****ed, and I may as well ditch all my guns and jump ship....
I'm sure there's some error in that thinking somewhere, but it's just my opinion, based on what I've found to work for me.

[bzdog]

I don't know about that- during recent ammo run, with rifle/handgun ammo nonexistant, the 12 ga. was starting to walk out the door pretty fast...

I think we should operate under the assumption that at any time, you'll have to roll with what you have. There is no running to Wallmart in the middle of a riot because you need ammunition... or AA batteries, or a couple of cans of beans. Likewise, if there is another ban scare, everything could dry up over night (again). And if it goes through, it's possible the empty shelves will stay that way.

As far as anti-ban material, [...] and likely to be one of the last things banned if configured in a societally correct form

Yah, that's what I was referring to.

-john

[austinN4]

Marks outdoors has 12 & 20 ga 870 for $378. try scrolling down.

Scriolling down doesn't show me what you described.