Shotguns not for COMBAT use

[Robb Jensen]

I'll be your Huckelbarry...

I'll vouch for you Buck............you can shoot and damn well too.

[RWK]

I'll vouch for you Buck............you can shoot and damn well too.

I did say "average". From what I've read, I don't consider Buck to be average.

[cd228]

editing I know we put the whole law of war bit to bed, but I'll sneak in a last point. Most people who quote the law haven't read it. I don't claim to know the law, but our Law of War instructor (A JAG Officer) at OCS made it very clear: If the US Army Issues it to you and you don't modify it, it is legal to shoot people with. The Army issuses shotguns.

In the service/sandbox only two things limit the shotgun. Support and Training. Support, we don't get enough rounds, and we don't get the right types. We should have OO,slug, and breaching. We didn't have slings, side saddles, or ammo pouches for the weapons. Standoff devices and lights for our shotguns, none of them either. Training, we did little to no home station training with our 500s. We were told "you'll shoot them in Kuwait". We didn't even get a basic load of ammo for our shotguns in Kuwait. With proper training, the shotgun is one of the most versitle weapon on the battle field.

Stopping power, the 12 gauge has it in spades. While Dade county was a good example of what can go terribly wrong, I'm sure we can find ancedotes where the shotgun has saved the day. Also, human beings aren't the only enemy on the battlefield. I ask our more experienced friends which they would rather shoot an attacking dog with, a 12 gauge or a 5.56?

YMMV

[ZDL]

What weapon is best for a given combat scenario should be decided by the professionals in the field, not bureaucrats on the home front. Give the professionals a full tool chest, let them decide what tool is best for the job at hand.

A F-ING MEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[1859sharps]

I'll vouch for you Buck............you can shoot and damn well too.

I'll vouch for him as well.....that boy can shoot

[MX5]

Geneva/Hague address uniformed combatants, not terrorists as we deal with today. Door breaching is not limited to urban LE situations. A 14" bbl 870 with proper technique works very well if applied correctly in hallways, rooms, tunnels, holes & caves. Get the proper training, shoot full power loads & use 00 buck & slugs. Done correctly, 200 - 300 hundred rds. per day in training is easily accomplished without injury. There are certain situations in combat where an M4 or sidearm just don't cut it. Rob Haught is absolutely correct in his "hammer of God" description.

[El Mac]

They worked pretty good in WWI didn't they?

[dhrith]

"The goal of this thread is to put forth and support the assertion that shotguns are not to be fielded in combat. "

if they're so non-applicable or effective,

Shouldn't we tell all the thousands killed in WW1,WW2,Korea,Vietnam,Gulf1,Gulf2 That they really shouldn't have worried about that big barrel pointed at them?

If I had 3 options in front of me, handgun, rifle, shotgun,
I have to admit I'd likely first choose the rifle. If someone however was in a position of making the choice for me and handed me a shotgun, I wouldn't spend one second pissing and moaning about it's non-applicability.
If I had a squad of men, and most certainly a platoon and didn't have a shotgun available i'd consider it a hole in my options.

[QuietShootr]

In all fairness the OP should have given Gabe Suarez credit, as that long post was in his last "newsletter".

Paladin

Yeah, I was just thinking that myself. Unless the OP's name is Suarez, he didn't write that...and that's plagiarism.

[casio02478]

I agree with the gist of it. Most shotgun I see here in the sandbox are used more as a master key then a weapon. In LE arena shotgun will always have the less-than lethal role. It's traditional role of being a cqb weapon has been largely supplemented by the rifle caliber carbine and development of CQB rifle marksmanship.