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Thread: Tons of bolt-over-base malfunctions...help

  1. #21
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    What's the deal with problem Noveske lowers lately?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koshinn View Post
    That's good to hear!
    I think the buffer and spring are masking the geometry issue. It's certainly that and not being over gassed (not that it isn't also, this just isn't the issue, imo) as I felt it almost bind up using the bolt release once.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by WS6 View Post
    I think the buffer and spring are masking the geometry issue. It's certainly that and not being over gassed (not that it isn't also, this just isn't the issue, imo) as I felt it almost bind up using the bolt release once.
    I'm all for fixing root causes, but when the root problem is an SBR'd lower, band-aids are all that you have left really.
    "I never learned from a man who agreed with me." Robert A. Heinlein

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koshinn View Post
    I'm all for fixing root causes, but when the root problem is an SBR'd lower, band-aids are all that you have left really.
    I think its the upper, after testing, but the lower is out of spec, and no other uppers fit it, so screw me. live and learn.
    For some reason the bcg rides higher in the Vltor vis/mur uppers. My 14.5" gun had similar failures, too, just not as many because it wasn't as overgassed, and come to think of it, it did not have as many jams with the white sprinco spring as it did the milspec I later ran. Spring pressure and a big heavy buffer it seems are what's required to try to overcome poor design geometry, here.
    Last edited by WS6; 11-27-13 at 19:47.

  5. #25
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    I am confused. If you think it's the upper, but the lower is out of spec, how do you know it's the upper and not the lower? I also want to make sure I am understadning you correctly. Are you saying that no other standard type upper will drop onto that lower and function or fit correctly?

    Quote Originally Posted by WS6 View Post
    I think its the upper, after testing, but the lower is out of spec, and no other uppers fit it, so screw me. live and learn.
    For some reason the bcg rides higher in the Vltor vis/mur uppers. My 14.5" gun had similar failures, too, just not as many because it wasn't as overgassed, and come to think of it, it did not have as many jams with the white sprinco spring as it did the milspec I later ran. Spring pressure and a big heavy buffer it seems are what's required to try to overcome poor design geometry, here.



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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    I am confused. If you think it's the upper, but the lower is out of spec, how do you know it's the upper and not the lower? I also want to make sure I am understadning you correctly. Are you saying that no other standard type upper will drop onto that lower and function or fit correctly?
    -It malfunctioned on another lower,too.
    -I can clearly see that the upper, even when on another lower, is *causing* the bolt carrier group to right higher than my other rifles. My other Vltor MUR/VIS would do something very similar to this one, just only on reloads using the bolt release, and not quite as pronounced.
    -You understand correctly that I own no other uppers which fit this lower. I have only seen two others that fit it. One from PSA, and another VLTOR VIS/MUR. I sent the lower to Daniel Defense, and they tried over half a dozen uppers, finally giving up and measuring the lower, which was found by them to be out of spec. It is possible that some other upper might fit it if I bought a whole bunch. The lower's sloppy and odd control of the magazine may well also contribute to the failures.
    Last edited by WS6; 11-28-13 at 04:09.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinister View Post
    It sounds like everything about this build is jacked-up.

    Custom (VLTOR) upper, out-of-spec lower, and a mix-mosh of all other components from barrel to recoil spring through buffer and magazine -- a true Frankengun with no relation at all to anyone's rifle build spec.

    It's amazing the thing goes bang, let alone functions.
    What else can I say?




    *in the interest of FULL disclosure, 2 guns were ordered by my dealer. Mine, with a 12.5" barrel and switchblock, and another, with a 10.5" barrel and no SB. EVERYTHING about the uppers (and lowers, except the trigger option selected) other than these two features were identical. Same VIS/MUR, CHF barrel, Surefire 212a mount, EVERYTHING. We just switched uppers is all after I saw them both, decided I liked the balance of the 10.5" and he liked the SB of my upper. Everything is 100% factory other than the buffer and spring, now.

    The upper, and the lower, were 100% completely assembled by Noveske Rifleworks, except for the muzzle-device, which Barry Dueck was nice enough to properly attach since Noveske's shop does not do this correctly, per Surefire's recommendation of using the spacer. They shim directly off of the barrel, and since they do not use a barrel relief cut, this is alleged to work, and in my experience does, but while Surefire was evaluating the 7-8 MOA POI shift suppressed/unsuppressed, it is once of the things they checked and corrected, along with trying multiple muzzle-devices to see if I got a bad one. It made no difference, still have the shift. The issue was not the can, per their testing of my upper with numerous cans and my can on numerous uppers that they have.

    So yes...

    ...I have a 7-8 MOA shift
    ...It slings casings to 1:30-2 with an H3 and Sprinco Blue
    ...Sometimes with anything else it fails to feed because the rounds bind on the way into the chamber
    ...The lower is out of spec, fitting only a PSA upper, and the VLTOR VIS/MUR's, it would seem, and binding on other upper's I've tried on it, measured out of spec by Daniel Defense when they tried to figure out why none of the half-dozen uppers THEY tried would fit my lower.
    ...Surefire and Daniel Defense tried their damnedest to square the thing away as described above, and now I'm working on making it reliable as a plinker since neither succeeded.

    All this said, it's not something I am going to dump on someone else, and it's an NFA lower, so hey, I'm trying, and I learned my lesson.
    Last edited by WS6; 11-28-13 at 06:59.

  8. #28
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    What does Noveske say about the out of spec lower?
    I know people running gen 2 Noveske lowers on JP, Stag, DD, and other uppers with no issues.
    Is the problem that since the lower is NFA registered it cannot be replaced by Noveske?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thump_rrr View Post
    What does Noveske say about the out of spec lower? "We take the time to fit each upper to each lower, we can only guarantee that it will fit the upper it came with" (this, after answering "Yes, sir" when I inquired as to "Are your Gen 2 FFL lowers "mil-spec" dimensions?" They then offered to build me a 300BLK upper "if you want to try that caliber" that they promised would fit my lower. On my dime, naturally.
    I know people running gen 2 Noveske lowers on JP, Stag, DD, and other uppers with no issues. I'm sure not all of them are out of spec.
    Is the problem that since the lower is NFA registered it cannot be replaced by Noveske? I would presume that this is the rub.
    Answers in red. However, I feel that the main issue is the upper, regarding my feeding issues, as my last Noveske rifle that used the VIS/MUR had the same problem, but to a lesser extent. You would think I would have learned after that :/
    Last edited by WS6; 11-28-13 at 09:40.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by WS6 View Post
    Answers in red. However, I feel that the main issue is the upper, regarding my feeding issues, as my last Noveske rifle that used the VIS/MUR had the same problem, but to a lesser extent. You would think I would have learned after that :/
    Unfortunately, I'm not surprised. I bought a Gen 1 chainsaw lower that was all kinds of jacked up. The replacement was only marginally better and won't accept Geissele pins or easily drop pmags. I still haven't sent that one back, because it's just a big hassle to disassemble the lower again.

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