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Thread: Tons of bolt-over-base malfunctions...help

  1. #31
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    Let me say this and hopefully I don't hurt your feelings. This is a learning lesson to everyone.

    Assembling a lower and then not testing it first and foremost to ensure it functions as it should is very ill-advised. I don't understand why people don't get this. It is also smart to actually shoot it with the actual components you intend on using. More often than not people are not thinking things through and are slapping stuff together. So yeah, the lower is probably goof balled, but it should have been detected before it was sent out for engraving.

    As for the upper. I have built close to a hundred uppers over the years with the MUR. In fact I own three of them myself. I have never had one that wouldn't work on a standard lower. All of the ones I built used a variety of lowers ranging from BCM-SIONICS-Colt- and yes even Noveske. I never had issues and neither did those who bought them from me or my partners I work with.

    I would seriously consider sending the entire gun to someone who is competent and can look at it in it's entirety and has the necessary parts on hand to swap out stuff. Maybe another MUR upper will fix it, maybe not.

    One thing I am confused about is that you stated Barry from Surefire put a lot of rounds through it doing shooting. How was it configured then and did he have problems? If not, why not? You may need to find another lower that actually fits and functions and then use it as a pistol until your new stamp arrives.



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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    Let me say this and hopefully I don't hurt your feelings. This is a learning lesson to everyone.

    Assembling a lower and then not testing it first and foremost to ensure it functions as it should is very ill-advised. I don't understand why people don't get this. It is also smart to actually shoot it with the actual components you intend on using. More often than not people are not thinking things through and are slapping stuff together. So yeah, the lower is probably goof balled, but it should have been detected before it was sent out for engraving.

    As for the upper. I have built close to a hundred uppers over the years with the MUR. In fact I own three of them myself. I have never had one that would work on a standard lower. All of the ones I built used a variety of lowers ranging from BCM-SIONICS-Colt- and yes even Noveske. I never had issues and neither did those who bought them from me or my partners I work with.

    I would seriously consider sending the entire gun to someone who is competent and can look at it in it's entirety and has the necessary parts on hand to swap out stuff. Maybe another MUR upper will fix it, maybe not.

    One thing I am confused about is that you stated Barry from Surefire put a lot of rounds through it doing shooting. How was it configured then and did he have problems? If not, why not? You may need to find another lower that actually fits and functions and then use it as a pistol until your new stamp arrives.
    Great advice. Unfortunately for WS6, I believe his was a factory SBR. In my situation, I should have tested the magwell and trigger pin fit before assembling everything else. I placed a little too much faith in the manufacturer and expected that they had test fit the lower as I requested for compatibility with Pmags and Geissele trigger pins. Considering I have issues with Pmags made between 2007-2013, all generations, there's no way they tested it as requested after I sent the original lower back the first time.

  3. #33
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    I'm reading that this is a factory built SBR. OP can you confirm?

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    Let me say this and hopefully I don't hurt your feelings. This is a learning lesson to everyone.
    No feelings hurt, just my wallet. $2600 for that rifle.

    Assembling a lower and then not testing it first and foremost to ensure it functions as it should is very ill-advised. I agree 100%, Noveske should take note, considering they assembled it.I don't understand why people don't get this. Me either. It is also smart to actually shoot it with the actual components you intend on using. Yep. More often than not people are not thinking things through and are slapping stuff together. This seems to be Noveske's MO in my experience, and from what I've read in similar threads. So yeah, the lower is probably goof balled, but it should have been detected before it was sent out for engraving.If I had sent it out for engraving. It's a factory rifle. People are missing this over and over and over . I think it's because I took a factory Noveske SBR and put a Factory Noveske upper on it, which was identical to the upper they sold the complete gun with, except it had a 10.5" barrel vs. the 12.5 and SB, and the VIS was the 9.5" instead of 7" model. Regardless, a factory Noveske upper on a factory Noveske lower should run, yeah? Especially when that lower came with a Vltor VIS/MUR upper to begin with.

    As for the upper. I have built close to a hundred uppers over the years with the MUR. In fact I own three of them myself. I have never had one that would work on a standard lower. Wait...what? No wonder I have issues. All of the ones I built used a variety of lowers ranging from BCM-SIONICS-Colt- and yes even Noveske. I never had issues and neither did those who bought them from me or my partners I work with. I don't know if it matters that it's MUR/VIS, or not.

    I would seriously consider sending the entire gun to someone who is competent and can look at it in it's entirety and has the necessary parts on hand to swap out stuff. Maybe another MUR upper will fix it, maybe not. Maybe. My other MUR/VIS (again, $2600 down the tube, Noveske's junk is expensive!) had similar issues, just not with live-fire. Only when reloading. I'm a slow learner, and bought another Noveske, this time an SBR. Fail.

    One thing I am confused about is that you stated Barry from Surefire put a lot of rounds through it doing shooting. How was it configured then and did he have problems? If not, why not? You may need to find another lower that actually fits and functions and then use it as a pistol until your new stamp arrives. I tested it at the range with another lower. It jammed up on that one, too. I e-mailed Garin to see if they had issues. Other than an absurd POI shift, I was not told about any, but it wasn't sent to have jamming diagnosed, either.
    Replies in red. To all of you who think this is "a parts rifle"

    IT IS A FACTORY ASSEMBLED SBR LOWER FROM NOVESKE, WITH A FACTORY ASSEMBLED UPPER, FROM NOVESKE.
    Last edited by WS6; 11-28-13 at 22:42.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtdawg169 View Post
    Great advice. Unfortunately for WS6, I believe his was a factory SBR. In my situation, I should have tested the magwell and trigger pin fit before assembling everything else. I placed a little too much faith in the manufacturer and expected that they had test fit the lower as I requested for compatibility with Pmags and Geissele trigger pins. Considering I have issues with Pmags made between 2007-2013, all generations, there's no way they tested it as requested after I sent the original lower back the first time.
    Yep, I ordered with the SSA trigger as an option, though, so at least my out of spec lower has a nice trigger, lol!

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    ...As for the upper. I have built close to a hundred uppers over the years with the MUR. In fact I own three of them myself. I have never had one that wouldn't work on a standard lower.
    Are you saying that you never had a MUR upper work with a standard lower, or was that a typo? I assembled a 20" upper on a MUR and mated it to a standard LRB lower and have never had any trouble with it. I'm using a carbine RE standard carbine spring and have tried the carbine, H and H2 buffer without malfunction
    INSIDE PLAN OF BOX
    1. ROAD-RUNNER LIFTS GLASS OF WATER- PULLING UP MATCH
    2. MATCH SCRATCHES ON MATCH-BOX
    3. MATCH LIGHTS FUSE TO TNT
    4. BOOM!
    5. HA-HA!!

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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    Are you saying that you never had a MUR upper work with a standard lower, or was that a typo? I assembled a 20" upper on a MUR and mated it to a standard LRB lower and have never had any trouble with it. I'm using a carbine RE standard carbine spring and have tried the carbine, H and H2 buffer without malfunction
    Regardless, the MUR/VIS and the regular MUR are totally different. They aren't even made out of the same material. It's like comparing an Impala to a Trailblazer.

  8. #38
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    Sorry I glossed over the factory issue with all of the back and forth. I would call Noveske again and ask to speak with the owner and explain in detail what happened and that you want compensation or a refund or something. At a minimum I would ask for a compatible 16" upper, drop it onto the lower and then assuming it works sell it off. (As I am sure you know once they are separated and you remove the short upper that lower now becomes a standard lower and can be bought and sold).

    Then pull apart the VIS, get a regular upper or MUR and rail and have it rebuilt. Sell of the VIS (with disclosure) or contact Vltor again and ask them to do something.

    Then bite the bullet and get a new standard forged lower and register it as an SBR.



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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    Sorry I glossed over the factory issue with all of the back and forth. I would call Noveske again and ask to speak with the owner and explain in detail what happened and that you want compensation or a refund or something. At a minimum I would ask for a compatible 16" upper, drop it onto the lower and then assuming it works sell it off. (As I am sure you know once they are separated and you remove the short upper that lower now becomes a standard lower and can be bought and sold).

    Then pull apart the VIS, get a regular upper or MUR and rail and have it rebuilt. Sell of the VIS (with disclosure) or contact Vltor again and ask them to do something.

    Then bite the bullet and get a new standard forged lower and register it as an SBR.
    I'm done with Noveske. Their CS has been crap so far, and I just don't feel like they would make good on their product. They have surely seen my numerous threads about it, I reached out to them in the past about the out of spec lower, etc. and they just wanted more of my money to build another upper to fit it if I wanted to try another caliber, etc.

    I don't want to talk to them, I don't think they will help me, and I am pretty sure by this point they don't want to talk to me, either.

    They most likely wouldn't even care about the reliability issues since they sold it with one of their 12.5" uppers, and I put one of their 10.5" uppers on it. They are all about denying responsibility for their product's lack of performance, as I discovered with the lower.

    I'm going to just use it as a plinker since the blue spring and H3 buffer have enough balls to force the cartridges into the chamber and slow things down a bit and it's reasonably reliable that way (I did not have any jams in 3 mags, that's good enough for training).

    Based on my 14.5" gun, which was identical (VIS/MUR, FFL lower), this is typical of the VIS/MUR product. The geometry is such that sometimes rounds jam on the way into the chamber. Either that, or the FFL lower on the 14.5" was causing jams by the bolt-catch dragging. Either way, the only two Noveske's I have owned, used the VIS/MUR and FFL lower, and had similar kinds of issues.

    I will continue to see if I find a regular upper that fits this lower, whenever I buy and sell things, and if I do, I'll pull the barrel off of the VIS and salvage what I can of things. In the mean-time, blue-spring and H3.

    I burned all my bridges with Noveske pretty much when they gave me their bullshit about the lower being milspec and turned right back around and acted like they some how "custom fit" their uppers and lowers and as such it is only guaranteed to fit the upper it comes with. I don't want them mucking around with my guns. They are incompetent, based on my experience with them.
    Last edited by WS6; 11-28-13 at 23:15.

  10. #40
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    The rifle left the factory fully functional and tuned for use with a 12.5 barrel, and you swapped in a 10.5 barrel or 10.5 complete upper on to the lower tuned for a different gas impulse and cycle, correct?

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