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Thread: Can't get a good barrel nut alignment.

  1. #21
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    Rascal

    "In every generation there are those who want to rule well - but they mean to rule. They promise to be good masters - but they mean to be masters." — Daniel Webster

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpom View Post
    This same topic is running strong on another site, dedicated to 3g competition, brianenos.com, in the technical rifle section. While a lot of feedback is similar to what is posted here, namely one should be able to obtain gas tube clearance while remaining in the recommended torque range of 35-80 ft-lbs, a respected poster stated that he has had no loss of accuracy with higher torque, within reason. This was also confirmed by a respected poster here, Robb Jensen in a PM.
    After conversing with these helpful folks, I left my rebuild alone, having obtained alignment at 85 ft-lbs. A take away from the discussion at be.com is that removing anodizing via lapping is a bad idea as it opens the possibility of galvanic corrosion between the barrel extension and receiver face.

    Mark
    5 lbs over isn't bad.

    Edited to remove erroneous information
    Last edited by MistWolf; 01-22-14 at 17:53.
    INSIDE PLAN OF BOX
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    2. MATCH SCRATCHES ON MATCH-BOX
    3. MATCH LIGHTS FUSE TO TNT
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    5 lbs over isn't bad. I don't reccomend removing the anodizing on your aluminum parts but aluminum and steel are both anodes. You may get corrosion in there, but it won't be due to a galvanic reaction. For that, you need an anode, cathode & electorlyte
    If one employs the proper grease, AEROSHELL 33ms, then those galvanic issues are solved.

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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post
    If one employs the proper grease, AEROSHELL 33ms, then those galvanic issues are solved.

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    True, unless you we're swimming with your AR in salt water all the time I wouldn't worry about it much.
    Chief Armorer for Elite Shooting Sports in Manassas VA
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  5. #25
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    After digging deeper into aluminum/steel galvanic action, it became obvious that during my initial research I was asking the wrong question. When steel and aluminum are together, aluminum is the anode and steel the cathode. If there is galvanic action between the two, the aluminum will corrode. The proper grease will prevent the galvanic action.

    Couple of articles for anyone interested
    http://www.corrosionist.com/Steel_Al...Corrosion.html
    http://aluminumsurface.blogspot.com/...inum-and.html\

    and a cool chart
    Last edited by MistWolf; 01-22-14 at 10:00.
    INSIDE PLAN OF BOX
    1. ROAD-RUNNER LIFTS GLASS OF WATER- PULLING UP MATCH
    2. MATCH SCRATCHES ON MATCH-BOX
    3. MATCH LIGHTS FUSE TO TNT
    4. BOOM!
    5. HA-HA!!

    -WILE E. COYOTE, AUTHOR OF "EVERYTHING I NEEDED TO KNOW IN LIFE, I LEARNED FROM GOLDBERG & MURPHY"

    http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_0114.jpg
    I am American

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robb Jensen View Post
    True, unless you we're swimming with your AR in salt water all the time I wouldn't worry about it much.
    Agreed. I'm OCD about greases during assembly. As long as some grease is used.

    Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
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    "The body cannot go where the mind has not already been."

  7. #27
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    I will mention that I am heavily influenced from the precision bolt rifle arena and much of my thoughts on marksmanship, trigger manipulation, etc, even rifle building pretty much translate to other platforms. In this case of the building process I can take a similar cue from the precision bolt rifle build where we blue print the action and true up the receiver face to the center axis of the bore of the bolt raceway. I know we are not looking for an alignment of gas tubes and barrel nut torque values as in an AR/M4, but might we get an added benefit of precision with the AR/M4 just like with the precision bolt rifle while solving the torque spec, or even tuning that torque spec to a desired value. Of course we might be talking different precision capabilities inherent to the rifles, but gas guns have come a long way.

    Of course the simple thing is the torque and re-torque to get some extra give, but that will only go so far. I don't like being too close to 30 and some nuts will get you way over 80 if indexed to correctly when the low number is hovering around 30. Then you can try another nut. Easy enough if you have one, but in the case of some proprietary barrel nuts, you may not have more than 1. Another simple, easy to install and cost effective way to do it for those who don't have the need very often is to use shims. Heck some proprietary designs might even specify the potential need to use a shim kit for correct torque / alignment for rail attachment.

    Last lapping. Not as cost effective for one or two rifles. While easy enough, not as simple as slipping on some shims, so what is the downside to lapping? Maybe removing too much material? Galvanic corrosion? Ahhh here we have arrived at that evil specter Mr. Galvanic Corrosion. Some people read too much on the internet or they really don't even understand what it takes to get a galvanic situation to arise or more correct, how simple it is to prevent it. It is surprising that some of these people go out in a rainstorm for fear of being struck by lightning. As mentioned in other posts, I too use grease during assembly and the correct grease as mentioned completely resolves any galvanic worries. The threads have ano on them but guess what happens when you torque on that steel nut? Yep, metal to metal contact, no ano, no sacrificial layer, no barrier. So we should be using grease anyway and lapping creates no more of an issue for corrosion if dealt with just like the threads.

  8. #28
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    Surf, you know more about precision rigs than i do. But I've been around enough precision builds done by buddies to know that truing a barrel to the action is a very early step in a true accuracy build.

    Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
    "That thing looks about as enjoyable as a bowl of exploding dicks." - Magic_Salad0892

    "The body cannot go where the mind has not already been."

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post
    If one employs the proper grease, AEROSHELL 33ms, then those galvanic issues are solved.

    Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
    this stuff is hard to find and expensive. can you just use a copper anti-seize lubricant?..
    never push a wrench...

  10. #30
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    Aeroshell seems to be the latest wondergrease. I still use Brownells ALP, which is moly-based as called for in the 23&P.
    Semper Paratus Certified AR15 Armorer

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