Multi-vitamins are now bad for you....

[Hmac]

Big Pharmaceuticals been saying vitamins are worthless for years because there is little money in them.

This is a good article refuting the findings of that flawed study.
http://www.newsmaxhealth.com/Headlin...o_code=16070-1

If you have Netflix, I strongly urge you to watch several documentaries, particularly "Food Matters" and "Forks over Knives". The info I learned was amazing!

The opinions as to the general worthlessness of vitamin supplements and the studies that support those opinions are from doctors, not pharmaceutical companies. The three studies published with the editorial were very well done, peer-reviewed analyses, and generally express what most doctors have known for decades.

[Todd00000]

Have you ever had a B12 level drawn?

No, and I don't think I have any problems, but I probably should have before I leave active duty, my Mom has a bad thyroid and takes daily B12 shots.

[BuzzinSATX]

The opinions as to the general worthlessness of vitamin supplements and the studies that support those opinions are from doctors, not pharmaceutical companies. The three studies published with the editorial were very well done, peer-reviewed analyses, and generally express what most doctors have known for decades.

The article I had linked to was an analysis of the study by a doctor....guess you didn't read it. Maybe you should, and see what he said about the quality of the procedures, materials, and subjects used to form a conclusion.

And are you talking about the same doctors who are paid by the drug companies to push their products? Not to mention most doctors in recent years receive little extensive training on nutrition.

Thousands upon thousands of folks have died from both abusing and taking recommended doses of prescription drugs, versus less than 10 people whose deaths might be linked to vitamins over the last 20 years...but vitamins are a problem?

And who funds those studies that show vitamins don't work? And what's their motives? What doses are they using? Are they using natural or synthetic vitamins? What about a regiment of food based nutrients as therapy?

I'm not saying all vitamins and supplements are good for you, and there is both quality and garbage throughout the industry, no doubt. But I no longer buy the notion that vitamins are worthless and drugs save lives.

[Hmac]

The article I had linked to was an analysis of the study by a doctor....guess you didn't read it. Maybe you should, and see what he said about the quality of the procedures, materials, and subjects used to form a conclusion.

And are you talking about the same doctors who are paid by the drug companies to push their products? Not to mention most doctors in recent years receive little extensive training on nutrition.

Thousands upon thousands of folks have died from both abusing and taking recommended doses of prescription drugs, versus less than 10 people whose deaths might be linked to vitamins over the last 20 years...but vitamins are a problem?

And who funds those studies that show vitamins don't work? And what's their motives? What doses are they using? Are they using natural or synthetic vitamins? What about a regiment of food based nutrients as therapy?

I'm not saying all vitamins and supplements are good for you, and there is both quality and garbage throughout the industry, no doubt. But I no longer buy the notion that vitamins are worthless and drugs save lives.

I'm not saying vitamins are dangerous. Just pointless. If you want to waste your money on them, I have no problem with that.

The article you wrote was by David Brownstein. He's a well-known practitioner of "holistic" medicine. Interestingly, when I entered his name in Google, it autocompleted several entries for me and the top two were "David Brownstein quack" and "David Brownstein scam". And the website you linked was interspersed with linked ads hawking "Get Dr. Brownstein's Bestselling Diet Guide For Only $4.95 — Save 67%. ". And you want to put that kind of bullshit against three peer-reviewed articles and an editorial in the Annals of Internal Medicine? Sorry, the agenda here is clear.

[J-Dub]

I honestly believe if you are ingesting a VERY well balanced diet with top produce and meat you probably don't need to supplement with vitamins. But how many of us can afford to do that day in and day out?

I'll continue to take my MV, my protein, and eat as clean as I can.

When I purchase a house, a green house will be one of the first projects to be completed for sure. Until then I'll take my chances with so called "organic" stuff that I know deep down inside probably isn't.

Oh ya and i'll continue to stay away from medication/vaccinations.

[BuzzinSATX]

I agree, the agenda is clear, but I definitely see it from the flip. Pharmaceutical companies pay doctors to push prescription drugs, not vitamins.

So the Internet says Brownsteins a quack...must be true! Bonjour!

Regardless what the Internet says about Brownstein (Bonjour?), he makes the argument that the tests were flawed and skewed towards negative results because they had sketchy data, used low doses of synthetic materials, and test subjects did not use products consistently. Can you definitively say he is wrong?

And that wouldn't be the first study that was ran to get bad results on vitamins and supplements. Misinformation is a powerful thing. Ask the administration...

Regardless, we'll just have to agree to disagree, but the bottom line for me is it's all based on what a person ingests into their body. If your eating a diet that is a majority of micronutrient foods (fruits, vegetables, beans, nuts, seeds, mostly raw and whole) and the rest is quality, minimally processed, real foods, you will need less additional supplements and vitamins than the person eating low nutrient, processed foods all day. But if you're eating Micky D's and Taco Bell 4 times a day, you'll be in dire need of quality vitamins and supplements to get your nutrients.

[BuzzinSATX]

I honestly believe if you are ingesting a VERY well balanced diet with top produce and meat you probably don't need to supplement with vitamins. But how many of us can afford to do that day in and day out?

I'll continue to take my MV, my protein, and eat as clean as I can.

When I purchase a house, a green house will be one of the first projects to be completed for sure. Until then I'll take my chances with so called "organic" stuff that I know deep down inside probably isn't.

Oh ya and i'll continue to stay away from medication/vaccinations.

J-Dub,

Good plan! I'm doing the same things myself. Check out the two videos I mentioned earlier, as well as another titled "Hungry For Change", all available on Netflix, and what you learn will be amazing.

[Hmac]

I agree, the agenda is clear, but I definitely see it from the flip. Pharmaceutical companies pay doctors to push prescription drugs, not vitamins.

So the Internet says Brownsteins a quack...must be true! Bonjour!

Regardless what the Internet says about Brownstein (Bonjour?), he makes the argument that the tests were flawed and skewed towards negative results because they had sketchy data, used low doses of synthetic materials, and test subjects did not use products consistently. Can you definitively say he is wrong?

And that wouldn't be the first study that was ran to get bad results on vitamins and supplements. Misinformation is a powerful thing. Ask the administration...

Regardless, we'll just have to agree to disagree, but the bottom line for me is it's all based on what a person ingests into their body. If your eating a diet that is a majority of micronutrient foods (fruits, vegetables, beans, nuts, seeds, mostly raw and whole) and the rest is quality, minimally processed, real foods, you will need less additional supplements and vitamins than the person eating low nutrient, processed foods all day. But if you're eating Micky D's and Taco Bell 4 times a day, you'll be in dire need of quality vitamins and supplements to get your nutrients.

Nutrition isn't a hobby with me, it's an important component of the way I practice medicine. Every day. My view, and apparently my education and experience, differs vastly from yours and I don't get a dime from any drug companies. I'm strictly an allopath by education, training, experience, and temperament. I'm not trying to hide my agenda either. I think holistic medicine is pretty much quackery making a buck on the ignorance and gullibility of the general public, $4.95 at a time (SAVE 67%!!!). Vitamin supplements, useful as they are in some circumstances, have become a major tool of the huckster and they can hawk them, and their diet books 24/7 all over the internet since they have no legal obligation to stay within the bounds of good or ethical medical practice.


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[misanthropist]

Nutrition isn't a hobby with me, it's an important component of the way I practice medicine. Every day. My view, and apparently my education and experience, differs vastly from yours and I don't get a dime from any drug companies. I'm strictly an allopath by education, training, experience, and temperament. I'm not trying to hide my agenda either. I think holistic medicine is pretty much quackery making a buck on the ignorance and gullibility of the general public, $4.95 at a time (SAVE 67%!!!). Vitamin supplements, useful as they are in some circumstances, have become a major tool of the huckster and they can hawk them, and their diet books 24/7 all over the internet since they have no legal obligation to stay within the bounds of good or ethical medical practice.


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I completely agree with your take on this subject, though I'm not in the field and consequently my grasp of the information is a pretty long way from that of a professional.

Reading the above post, however, it occurred to me that in addition to being an allopath, it would be totally ****ing awesome if you were an allosaurus. Surprise, patients!

[WillBrink]

A few thoughts jump out at me. It's important to remember most studies in multi vites are done on products like Centrum and such, so the question of the value of a multi in various populations if far from answered by this review. I have to admit, this paper gets a big yawn from me (recall the recent review that concluded similar about fish oil too that got people all stirred up...) and is getting more traction than it deserves, most due to a generally anti supplement bias most mainstream media outlets.

That does not mean such a review paper should be dismissed outright per se, but taken with a grain of salt perhaps and kept in context. Low dose multi vites don't replace good nutrition and exercise to prevent major disease is about the only firm conclusion I'd take from this review, and (1) I'd be surprised if they found otherwise and (2) a "no duh" to those in the know about such things.

I'll add more in depth thoughts when I dig some more