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Thread: Ever seen this before? AAC Roll pin in Bolt not set correctly

  1. #21
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    I think I know the vendor that you are talking about, and we get a high percentage of our bolts from them. They do not come unmarked to us as they do to you, because, well, as I said - we ask them to put a vendor code on them. If there is a problem with a bolt, we want to know who made it. I am not sure how Colt and BCM track vendor performance, or if it is even possible for unmarked bolts if they fail later in testing, but we find it important to be able to do that, so we can continue to buy from the best vendors. Our bolt body is of standard dimensions and material, and not enhanced. We assemble them at AAC and use a custom extractor spring made from upgraded material.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsilvers View Post
    I think I know the vendor that you are talking about, and we get a high percentage of our bolts from them. They do not come unmarked to us as they do to you, because, well, as I said - we ask them to put a vendor code on them. If there is a problem with a bolt, we want to know who made it. I am not sure how Colt and BCM track vendor performance, or if it is even possible for unmarked bolts if they fail later in testing, but we find it important to be able to do that, so we can continue to buy from the best vendors. Our bolt body is of standard dimensions and material, and not enhanced. We assemble them at AAC and use a custom extractor spring made from upgraded material.
    I have seen TONS of these bolts and never seen their vendor code on them. Most companies that are super picky about their parts, generally only buy from 1-2 places (or make things to their spec). So it should be VERY easy to always know where you are getting your items.

    There are no real set standards for parts in my experience. Want a Bolt made out of a certain type of steel? No problem. Want it HPT'd, but not MPI'd? No problem. Want a certain finish on it? No problem. Point is that it is SUPER easy to get a lower quality product UNLESS you send in your drawings and requirements. I am always concerned when companies just let the end manufacturer just ship you what they want (as it could mean that you are getting rejected parts from a company like colt). I have seen this exact thing played out several times.


    C4

  3. #23
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    I don't know how it would be super easy to trace back a failed bolt to one of two vendors if they were unmarked. Traceability is part of our quality control method. Vendors codes are important to us, even if they are not important to Colt or BCM. We need to be able to trace back parts in case of a problem, so that we can take corrective action.

    Of course we send our drawing. That is the only way that is fair to the manufacturer because we don't pay for any parts that don't match the drawing. They have to know what we will inspect against. Every dimension is specified, along with shot peening, finish, hardness, surface finish, etc.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsilvers View Post
    I don't know how it would be super easy to trace back a failed bolt to one of two vendors if they were unmarked. Traceability is part of our quality control method. Vendors codes are important to us, even if they are not important to Colt or BCM. We need to be able to trace back parts in case of a problem, so that we can take corrective action.
    LOL, well it is simple. You send the bolt back to the company and say WTF? When they say "it isn't ours" you go to the second company. Honestly though, I would have MY COMPANIES info put on the bolt so there was no question on it. Having DPMS's mark on it is a fail as you wouldn't know if it was a part built to the best standards or to DPMS's standards.


    Of course we send our drawing. That is the only way that is fair to the manufacturer because we don't pay for any parts that don't match the drawing. They have to know what we will inspect against. Every dimension is specified, along with shot peening, finish, hardness, surface finish, etc.
    If you send your drawing, why not have the bolt marked AAC?? There is no way on this earth that I would let DPMS put their mark on my bolt if I was providing the drawings and specs.


    C4

  5. #25
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    Push the pin in ...

  6. #26
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    You guys sparked my interest so I looked in my parts bin at a DPMS bolt carrier I have, and it ISNT marked with anything, no "D" no numbers nothing. My bcm bolt is however, obviously marked.
    when life closes doors on you, blow them off the hinges.

  7. #27
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    I know that a bolt is a critical part, and with all of the effort that I went through upgrading everything that I could think of that matters on the rifle, it should be self-evident that I would never not use the best bolt. We submit our rifles to military and government testing, and we do not hand-pick any parts for that. We have never built rifles where I have picked, or asked anyone to pick, a bolt with a certain vendor code on it either for my own rifle, or for a rifle due for a government test. This is because I believe in science and not voodoo, and if it passes our drawing, then it is a good bolt. If that were not the case, then our drawing would need to be changed. Never has any branch of the government or military raised any question or concern whatsoever with our bolts either before or after endurance testing. We have never had a bolt break in endurance testing (either ours or in govt tests). We have fired over 60 proof rounds (72,000 psi) on one bolt, and I still have and use that bolt.

    You are describing branding, which is different than the goal of traceability. We mark AAC on the rifle in lots of places. It is the product manager who decides which parts have the AAC brand on it.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsilvers View Post

    You are describing branding, which is different than the goal of traceability. We mark AAC on the rifle in lots of places. It is the product manager who decides which parts have the AAC brand on it.
    That is your choice, but you can clearly see where the concern and confusion comes in. Bolt marked with the letter "D" are built by DPMS or for DPMS. I would never allow this to happen in a gun I build.

    YMMV.



    C4

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    That is your choice, but you can clearly see where the concern and confusion comes in. Bolt marked with the letter "D" are built by DPMS or for DPMS. I would never allow this to happen in a gun I build.
    Yes, that is a valid point. It is like at the Atlanta airport. The train has gates called Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, David, Echo. They specifically avoid saying "Delta" for D-gate because people will assume that it means the airline even though it is just part of the phonetic alphabet. It bugs me though, as I know that "Delta" does not mean the airline.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingCobra View Post
    You guys sparked my interest so I looked in my parts bin at a DPMS bolt carrier I have, and it ISNT marked with anything, no "D" no numbers nothing. My bcm bolt is however, obviously marked.
    Does it have two dimples in vertical alignment on the carrier? I had a recently made, brand-new DPMS bcg with those markings and sold it during the panic. The bolt did have the "D" mark.

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